The ride op red zone

Proving that the "safety guy" really has lost his mind, I noticed ride operators on several rides have red spots they're supposed to stand on during dispatch. Coasters have red lines on the exit sign that they should be behind.

I understand the logic is that the ride operators should be in places they can't get grabbed by riders on the train. I find that a bit absurd since as far as I know it hasn't happened in decades, at any park. It wouldn't matter except where it doesn't make sense, like on Magnum.

Magnum operators still have to hide behind the posts and can't watch the train dispatch. If they think they see something, they have to try to pick up what they saw on the other side of the post. Then if they want to stop the train, the person at controls has to actually see them, blended in with the crowd on the platform. How is this safer for anyone?

I'm all for being safer, but common sense has to kick in now and then. At least they realized that no one listens to auto-spiels, and they probably wouldn't make any difference to an ambulance chasing lawyer in an accident suit.

One step forward, one back, but at least something is happening.

I guess its a product of the society we live in today. If a ride-op got hurt, they could presumably sue CP for not having these red spots, even if they were instructed of the danger.

Frivolous lawsuits have wreaked havoc on our country.

When I worked at Geauga Lake way too many years ago we had a ride operator who got her shoelace caught on a kick release mechanism and was dragged through the station. A spot on the concrete wouldn't have saved her. But, that was back in the day when we would stand at the entrance to the station and kick the releases as the train was coming in.

In retrospect it probably wasn't the safest thing to do. Then again, we did a lot of dumb things back then and the kids today do dumb things too. It is just that back then I wasn't going to turn around and sue the company for getting hurt. Now you can't be so sure of that. And, you can even get sued when the employee was responsible for their own injury.

Blame the legal system...not the parks. I'm not even sure the insurance systems is at fault. (Though, living in Florida I can tell you there are plenty of legitimate reasons to be upset with the insurance industry.)

Here I thought I was the only one that missed the days when Gemini was "pushed" out of the station by the ride ops. The bigger the ride ops, the more you thought you were going to win.

Jeff said:

I'm all for being safer, but common sense has to kick in now and then. At least they realized that no one listens to auto-spiels, and they probably wouldn't make any difference to an ambulance chasing lawyer in an accident suit.

One step forward, one back, but at least something is happening.

As a former ride op we were told the auto spiels were to eliminate any money hungry lawyers from asking the dreaded question to his "victim"-were you told to hold on? The victim can say no. Now it is up to the ride op to prove that he/she DID say just that before that persons particular train left the station. Good luck.
With the auto spiels, when asked by the lawyer, what instructions are told before EVERY train departs/arrives, CP can play the auto spiel from beginning to end. Period. There is NO question all was covered (sometimes more than once) before that guest rode.

Although we do try to make sure we get in the "keep all hands inside the train................" required speech, there are times that is impossible due to having to say more than usual, bad batteries, or a talkative guest.

The only ride I could understand why they would need someone talking is Mantis, since standing and NOT bouncing is something the normal guest doesn't understand, and has to be reminded of 80x before the ride is cleared.
I know (on Raptor anyway) if you're on unload 1 you can get your seat belt check done alot quicker if you weren't busy trying to talk at the same time. I wonder if the same holds true for other rides as well.

Half the time you can't understand the ride ops anyway. No one can say they had problems understanding the auto spiels (especially those of us that had them memorized! :))

I wonder how other (non CF) parks get away with not saying anything at all on any of the rides??

Jo
Lifetime Raptor flights: 1080 :)
Lifetime Skyhawk flights: 17 :)

But there's not even any guarantee that anyone "hears" a recorded spiel either, at least not a legal guarantee, so why bother?

Speaking of recording you don't hear, I don't recall hearing the spiel on the Magnum lift.

Jeff: Thank $DEITY that recording is gone!

A reading from the Ohio Revised Code, section 1711, chapter 55, beginning with the first verse:

(A) No rider shall fail to do any of the following:

(1) Heed all written warnings and directions that require a person to meet certain conditions or to refrain from certain actions regarding an amusement ride, as determined by rule by the director of agriculture;

(2) Refrain from behaving or acting in any manner that may cause injury or contribute to injuring himself or other people while occupying an amusement ride.

Here ends the reading.

Notice that the State statute is very specific that riders are to heed all WRITTEN warnings. There is, in fact, NOTHING in the ORC which specifies anything about audible warnings. I wonder if that is some consumer protection, to keep ride operators from making up rules on the spot.....

The ASTM rider responibility section does mention oral instructions. Thus sayeth the ASTM, in F 770-2006:5.1--

Patrons have a duty to exercise good judgment and act in a responsible manner while using the amusement ride, device, or attraction and to obey all oral or written warnings, or both, prior to or during participation, or both.

This is the word of the ASTM.

Did they used to push Gemini? I thought they ran with such short headways that it wasn't practical. But I do remember that Mine Ride was always pushed.

I don't have a problem with the red line, but on Magnum they really need to get the load side attendants out from behind the poles, and the co-dispatch location really needs to be moved to the unload side.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

We were thinking the red dots were because Kotex was a new Cedar Point sponsor or something! ;)

The pillar issue on Magnum continues to season number two. I was hoping they'd wake up and see that even though maybe the employees are safer back there, the guests certainly are less safe. When I was trained on Magnum, we were tought to look down into the train as it was leaving to ensure all belts were buckled and all lapbars were down. I trained my crew the same way. If not, then you call a hold. Both of those things are tough to do from behind a pillar. I would maintain that it is also much more difficult to look at seatbelts from behind that red line on unload too, but at least you are free to position yourself somewhere not blocked by a pillar.

Oh well, what do we know? :) I'm happy the crew seems to be rather on the ball early on this year which is a good thing. Now if only the ride would start behaving better.

Gemini was pushed in the sense that the ops were not the ones actually pushing the ride out.

1 or 2 ops would start from the back and pretend to give it a great big heave to get it out of the station. Basically running behind Gemini with a hand on the train. I'm assuming thats a big no no today.

So, in other words, it was a way for the ops to have fun and interact with guests, making their stay at the point that much more enjoyable. Yeah, thats a big no no today.

I am in favor of the recorded spiels as well, for the same reasons Jo mentioned.

Too many times rides ops become of the mind set that the spiel is for the entertainment of the crowd (that is after all the reason most of the people here are happy to see the auto spiel gone). In all the hoopla of shouting "How was your ride", "Don't stand on the yellow line, he is my friend" and other non-approved spiels, the safety instructions become lost and occasionally omitted.

The auto spiel offers a consistent and professional delivery of the safety instructions. When done right right like at MF, WT and TTD, it actually encourages the guest to listen. As long as the speakers are in good condition and the sound levels are right the defense shouldn't have any problem proving safety instructions were given.

Either way recorded or live, the guest should be able to "hear" the spiel. More often than not riders will be talking to friends, eyeballing platform attendants or doing something else more interesting to them. In which case they will choose not to "listen". And there's nothing you can do about that.

For what is is worth, in the Standard Op manual there is a paragraph or to which covers the proper way a spiel should be read. One of the things it says not to do, is encourage riders to yell or become loud. I always felt that the "how was your ride?" contradicted that part of the manual.

However, as Rideman pointed out, there is no need for any kind of audible safety spiel (from a legal standpoint). It is on the rider to read all applicable safety signs and adhere to what they say. The spiels should be there to get people to understand what they need to do getting in and out of the vehicle (push down and pull up on your lapbar) as well as keeping the crowd entertained.

Not to mention the spiels were never timed for the release of a train. I think on Magnum you got to hear the first 10 seconds before your train was out of the station, and that was if you were in the last row.

I'm very happy to hear that they've removed the recordings.

*** Edited 5/9/2006 4:32:11 PM UTC by JuggaLotus***

Although we do try to make sure we get in the "keep all hands inside the train................" required speech, there are times that is impossible due to having to say more than usual, bad batteries, or a talkative guest.

Which is why on the back of each coaster car it is clearly printed to hold on, keep arms inside the car at all times, etc...

I think CP has its bases covered, should rider stupidity lead to an accident.

I did notice these red lines and dots...however, I also noticed that the ops really didnt stand on them, or behind them in every case either, so i was left wondering why they were there.

I agree the timing was pretty bad on more than a few rides (too much safety info).

Up until the year Raptor was built the mics were for the most part only used to get people in and out of the ride. Somehow those Raptor boys changed everything and were allowed to come up with all sorts of crazy and fun spiels. They were a big hit with riders, and the safety spiel somehow became secondary to entertainment.

I think there is room for both in the spiel (as shown by TTD, WT & MF) and understand the preference of more personalized interaction with guests. I just get tired of hearing spiels that are too fast, too quiet, too loud or just plain lazy. Add to that situations when the mic abused for things like "tell John Happy Birthday, he's 16 yrs. old today"

An auto spiel doesn't abuse the mic. It remains Professional.

Why does it have to be professional? It should be entertaining. And I don't see wishing someone happy birthday, or congratulating someone on their first ride or any other kind of clean guest interaction (yes there is a line there, but the ops seem to know that) as abusing the mic.

I think a huge emphasis on being "professional" is part of what lead to the downfall of guest interaction the past few seasons. It's an amusment park, guests aren't going to give a second thought about the "professional" guy, they're going to remember the guy who gave their kid a high five and really made their day special.

I agree with what Richie is getting at. The standard spiel, said with enthusiasm, really adds to the atmosphere. And I think it is much better live than recorded. But I think all the "extras" take away from the experience. It really comes off as amateurish ("look at me!"), not entertaining.

Well, when someone goes flyin' out because the ops were busy singing happy b-day instead of checking lap bars don't blame me ;)

I know that is an extreme example, but the point is that a professional and safe atmosphere should be maintained. I'm not saying the ops should be like robot zombies, just that once you start to give an inch-they take a mile. (I worked there 10+yrs., I know).

Back to the red zones, I haven't seen them yet. I don't want to give them any ideas, but it could be worse. (Light curtains, pressure mats, foot peddles).

I don't care one way or the other. As long as the rides are operating.

OK, I do care. Get rid of the auto's and let the ops do the talking

MrScott

Dan,

Thank you for your opinion and suggestion. Our current position on
ride spiels is that we are trying to make the guest's experience a more
personal experience. Having the ride host spiel is far more personal
than a canned spiel from a recorder. This is why we have chosen the live
spiel.

Thank you again for your comment.

Bob Wozniak
Director, Park Operations
Cedar Point

Based on this email, I think Bob would embrace the fact that the op took the extra couple seconds to wish someone a happy birthday. This year they're going for the "personal experience" and in my eyes, are just relying more on their posted rules and regulations rather than the safety speils. I'm sure Ops are still required to read the safety speils, however the fact that they took away the auto-speils shows that they want those extra "happy birthdays" and "how was that ride?" in there.

I think I understand where you're coming from though. I've heard an op being stupid on the mic before and abusing his mic privileges. That's a different situation though, where that op just doesn't need to do speils anymore and leave it to the ops who can remain professional.

I think it can still be professional, but be fun at the same time.

*** Edited 5/9/2006 5:27:30 PM UTC by Carpy***