The Great Debate

This may seem pointless to some people, but I want someone to make a good point .

I say we try to have a formal debate on the internet. No Bashing. No Flaming. No Spamming/Pointless Posts. I want to see who can prove their point very well and have evidence. I've seen people who can make good points (CoasterBob) and I want to see them here. The question:

Will this ride be L-TH-B?

Remember, use evidence from pictures and make sure your posts make sense. I know this may violate some rule on this site, but I want to see the outcome of this.

Begin.

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LeWiS

I still stand for this coaster not being L-TH-B

first of all, the lagoon is dug up all the way to the power tower.

2) the cam is not centered on the construction site.

3) why would CP build another coaster that is basically the same as the WT.

4) there is ALOT of cuved track in the parking lot, way more than enough to fit in the tower. some have a radius that would be too small to fit in the tower.

http://www.virtualmidway.com/mystery/attraction404.jpg

http://www.setecx.com/pics/cp101202const/imagepages/PICT0153.html

http://www.setecx.com/pics/cp101202const/imagepages/PICT0158.html

the third pic has curved track with a really big radius. I counted 7-8 pieces of curved track...some have a smaller radius, some have a MUCH bigger radius.

5) i just dont see CP getting a coaster that is so short and pointless.

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- Dennis

*** This post was edited by Big D 10/22/2002 4:52:16 PM ***

OK, I'm on the side that it may be more than L-TH-B.

Why? Well, first of all, why not? We all know CP is not the copying type, unlike another park. (Hmph...SF, Hmph) They take a design and make it better. I suspect they have something up their sleeves, like maybe they'll trick us by putting more footers in after they finish the tower, just to make us think it will just be L-TH-B. Never give up on a cause until the very end!

Secondly, both the Breakers cam and the new Corkscrew Gift Shop cam are not centered on the current construction. Why not set it up so that you could see the station and tower better if that's all you're building? Why use a wide angle lens when a standard one will do just as well and without distortion? It doesn't make sense!

Finally, why dig up the entire lagoon if you're not going through it? And what about that pile o' dirt on Millie Isle? I can understand that they needed to move the dirt somewhere, but if they aren't using all that space near PT, why not put it there?

In conclusion, there are too many little quirks in this construction to support the thought that there is no way it could be anything other than L-TH-B. I'm not saying that there definitely will be more, but rather that we should keep an open mind. CP has surprised us before.

...whew...God, I wish I could write English papers that good!

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"Thank you for riding Millenium Force, and please enjoy the rest of your day here at Cedar Point, America's Rockin' Roller Coast!"

To argue for the sake of arguing:

1) Just because the lagoon is dug up all the way to PT doesn't mean that the ride will go there.

2) The cam is only slightly offcentered, and not every webcam in the past has been perfectly centered. The offcentering is still a decent argument though.

3) This coaster will not be inverted, it will be twice the size, it will be much faster, it will be full circuit, it will have multiple trains, it will have a top hat... you can't say that it will be basically the same as WT.

4) Pointless? I think the point is clear, this thing will be the tallest and fastest in the world, and will undoubtedly provide a thrill that we have never experienced before.

As for whether I think it will just be L-TH-B, it's hard to say that it will be more given the current progress, but it is early to be completely ruling out anything else. Even with that, I still think it will just be L-TH-B. We already know that there will be brakes right after the top hat, because that brake track is up today. I'm not heart-set on it just being L-TH-B though, that's just what it looks like right now.

edit: As for the large amounts of convex track in the lot... perhaps this will be a unique top hat...

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"Meh."
Wicked twists: 10
Danger: Hgih Voltage!
*** This post was edited by Majin Heero 10/22/2002 5:07:37 PM ***
*** This post was edited by Majin Heero 10/22/2002 5:12:18 PM ***

ok big d get the point over ur head that we don't have all of the information yet and how can u predcit that this isn't going to be a L-TH-B coaster. The park is just letting us see what they want us to see... and if they had all the pices in the parking lot then it wouldn't be a mystery now would it Big d
Uh, Brandon....

Big D is on the side that there might be more. I think you were talking to Majin Heero.

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"Thank you for riding Millenium Force, and please enjoy the rest of your day here at Cedar Point, America's Rockin' Roller Coast!"

Well, I don't consider twistage as part of the L:TH:B equation, so no it won't be just that. I think that it's still too early to tell that it will be just that, although there is much evidence to prove otherwise.

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June 28th: LocoBazooka Tour (Sevendust headlining)
July 11th: Korn, Puddle of Mudd, and Deadsy


Majin Heero said:. We already know that there will be brakes right after the top hat, because that brake track is up today.

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"Meh."
Wicked twists: 10
Danger: Hgih Voltage!

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how do you know that brake track is up today? i can't see anything different on either WebCam and even if i could, i don't think i could tell the difference between regualr track and brake track...

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not to be confused with Tservo...


This may be wierd and will probably get deleted, but if anyone wants to have a live debate go to http://urcoaster.homestead.com/modding.html
::Applause::Applause::!!! I'm so proud of you not at eachother's throats. Let's see how this goes.

My arguement: No L-TH-B

I am going to go on the fact that it really *isn't* CP's style. If they were going to make a coaster that big, they might as well have it be as long as it is thrilling.

On the other hand, they might do something interesting on the tophat, to make the ride not seem so pitiful as it might as if it were L-TH-B. But, if they did make twists or something on the towers, then it really would be too much like WT. Just a little higher.

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LeWiS

Well, as far as the first pic shown, that piece of curved track has a support connection on it. Therefore, it most likely wont go on the tower. Also, I hope that Cedar Point learned from Kings Dominion. A ride needs substance, not just a launch. I vote that it's NOT a L:TH:BR.

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If life is full of ups and down, you better make sure your safety restraint is locked and ENJOY the ride.
*** This post was edited by bboynfuel 10/22/2002 5:21:28 PM ***

I would first off like to thank Player for creating and organized debate. Secondly, don't just provide counter points to someone's argument, provide points for your own argument. Anyone can listen to someones point and find something that proves it wrong. That's not what we want to hear. We want to hear why you think this will or will not be a L-TH-B. Now for my ideas

1) Someone made a point in a previous post but I'm not sure on the facts. I know that Xcellerator cost $13 million to make. Someone said that CP is spending $20 million on this ride. Why such a discrepancy in prices? Sure it's taller, but if it's just a L-TH-B then they surely wouldn't need to spend $20 million. But again, I don't know that the $20 million is accurate.

2) Why did they start construction on this thing in August if all they have to build is a L-TH-B. Are you telling me that it takes just as long to build a L-TH-B as it did to build Millie? There will obviously have to be testing, but for 3 months? The way this thing is going, it will be done by January. It doesn't seem logical to start building so early on a project that clearly won't take long to finish if it is only a L-TH-B.

These are just my ideas. If you have counterpoints that's fine, but let's also here your ideas.

Actually I think that the top hat will be connected to the tower, unlike Xcelerator's, after looking at various parts in the lot and such.

servo, it's a lot easier to see in the morning, when the sun is behind the webcam. This morning there was actually a point when the sun was reflecting off of the copper fins on the brake track, making it clearly visible.

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"Meh."
Wicked twists: 10
Danger: Hgih Voltage!

You guys, Think about the Iron Dragon area they cleared, think about the emptied PWE. I'm not for L-TH-B. They cleared area out near the PT gift shop. My theory is more than L-TH-B!

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Anden?

i'm totally with you andy...i forgot to state that in my post above...that is really a good point if its such a short ride...why start the construction in August. Technically it started in may with the first footers poured. They started to build the MF around the same time which is supposible like 3-4 times bigger than this and much more complex.

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- Dennis

Just to provide a theory as to why it may have been started so early is the fact that attaching the ride at 400+ feet in the air in January weather may not be too safe. Millennium Force was topped off around New Years of 2000, and it was snowing and windy. They probably wanted to get a head start and get the tower up before the cold weather set in.
I agree. Construction work in the winter is no fun. I worked as a land surveyor for years. If it is at all possible to finish a job before the unpredictable winter, then I would be all over it.

Also, the paint marks at various places around midway look more like survey control points rather than footing locations.

Completed portions of the ride in area 51 certainly seem to point towards a L-TH-B, but i agree that it is still too early to tell for sure.

Majin Heero is correct about the structure being connected to the top hat.

Unless that extremely sloped track with connectors on the bottom is for a bunny hop ;)

My vote goes to the L-TH-B theory.

For one thing, Jeff hinted to us that our ideas were accurate about the rides dissapointment.

Also, the footers suggest it, but thats been said already.

I also tend to prepare for the worst, but I'm pretty sure it will be a L-TH-B.

BTW, its kinda pointless, but I found out today that I'm going to CP next summer for my second time. (I live in CT so it's a big deal foe me :) )

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--Dingo 65--
http://rct.ogresnet.com


RollerCoast2319 said:
Uh, Brandon....

Big D is on the side that there might be more. I think you were talking to Majin Heero.

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"Thank you for riding Millenium Force, and please enjoy the rest of your day here at Cedar Point, America's Rockin' Roller Coast!"


yea sorry

I hate to say it too, but I think it is a L-TH-B also. They probobly started building early before the bad weather comes. Mabey they have another project they want to work on in the off season that doesn't interfere with the weather.

Closed topic.

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