The "Boardwalk Project"
Yeah, Summers/Dinn built some pretty crappy coasters over the years, but before we all celebrate his death (pretty low blow), just keep in mind there were successes - the Texas Giant, for one, which is consistently rated one of the top woodies in the world, and has actually placed first in several polls. And, problems with rideability aside, Mean Streak is, without a doubt, the most beautiful coaster on the planet. I could not imagine CP without it.
And by the way, as if that isn't legacy enough, his daughter co-founded CCI, the best coaster designers in the business.
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Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill.
Man, let's not rip on the dead. MS has it's problems, but woodies have improved dramatically since. They are really on an upside now. The problem with DT is:
Avalanche Run was supposed to be a thrill ride. It's not. It's a family coaster. DT's theming was supposed to bring that thrill back. But the effects, if that's what you want to call them, are awful! The ride would be better if it was pitch black. Then again, we are so familiar with the layout that we would know what to expect. That's why they can not modify it any more...there is no suspense...we know what lies ahead. I can visualize the whole layout in my mind right now.
Moving it would cost too much and wouldn't be worth it. Yes, the lines are semi-long, but I truly feel that's because it's air-conditioned and that people can not see how long the line is. I've seen plenty of people get in line and leave because the line moves so slow. Each train only holds 10 people. Heck, I'll go on it if it's really hot outside, and I can't stand the ride! One more thing, the ride is just too short. By the time it gets any momentum, it's over.
Hey, I know some of you like it. But like I said before, if CP does tear it down and build a new coaster in its place, they can always put a Wild Mouse or a kiddie coaster somewhwere else in the park at very little expense to up the coaster count. I don't think too many people would complain about that, especially if they put a floorless, a good wooden coaster, etc. in its place. *** This post was edited by net on 12/15/99. ***
Avalanche Run was supposed to be a thrill ride. It's not. It's a family coaster. DT's theming was supposed to bring that thrill back. But the effects, if that's what you want to call them, are awful! The ride would be better if it was pitch black. Then again, we are so familiar with the layout that we would know what to expect. That's why they can not modify it any more...there is no suspense...we know what lies ahead. I can visualize the whole layout in my mind right now.
Moving it would cost too much and wouldn't be worth it. Yes, the lines are semi-long, but I truly feel that's because it's air-conditioned and that people can not see how long the line is. I've seen plenty of people get in line and leave because the line moves so slow. Each train only holds 10 people. Heck, I'll go on it if it's really hot outside, and I can't stand the ride! One more thing, the ride is just too short. By the time it gets any momentum, it's over.
Hey, I know some of you like it. But like I said before, if CP does tear it down and build a new coaster in its place, they can always put a Wild Mouse or a kiddie coaster somewhwere else in the park at very little expense to up the coaster count. I don't think too many people would complain about that, especially if they put a floorless, a good wooden coaster, etc. in its place. *** This post was edited by net on 12/15/99. ***
Curtis Summers died in the early 90s (92 or 93 I think) I just read about it in an old First Drop. He built many great coasters in addition to a few that wern't so great. (I've ridden most of his) Hell, Mean Streak USED to be great. In 1991 and 1992 I thought it was awsome. (It still isn't bad, just not what it used to be)
In regards to Knott's Boardwalk, they have had a boardwalk themed area for quite some time. I think since they put in their Boomerang.
As for the Summers bashing: The Beast (I sure don't think that's a bad ride!!), Thunder Run, Timber Wolf, Pegasus, all killer coasters. Thunder Run was recently retracked and was smoooth as glass. Let's not blame designers for what could sometimes be solved with some retracking.
As for the Summers bashing: The Beast (I sure don't think that's a bad ride!!), Thunder Run, Timber Wolf, Pegasus, all killer coasters. Thunder Run was recently retracked and was smoooth as glass. Let's not blame designers for what could sometimes be solved with some retracking.
PLEASE... Lets start with the Beast...Design and constuction by Kings Island Maintenance and engineering dept., trains built by: Philadelphia Toboggan Co. (via..PKI's web site)
Someone ealier said the Texas Cyclone is a Curt ride...that was built by William Cobb!
Pegasus..A jr. coaster at Wisconsin Dells. Built by Custom Coasters and Co. In 1996.. four years AFTER Curt's supposed death.
Thunder Run and Timber Wolf are two of Curt's finest pieces of crap!
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Puff'n the Winston..Drink'n a 4-O..Toofast, and I'm gona let ya know.
Someone ealier said the Texas Cyclone is a Curt ride...that was built by William Cobb!
Pegasus..A jr. coaster at Wisconsin Dells. Built by Custom Coasters and Co. In 1996.. four years AFTER Curt's supposed death.
Thunder Run and Timber Wolf are two of Curt's finest pieces of crap!
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Puff'n the Winston..Drink'n a 4-O..Toofast, and I'm gona let ya know.
To clarify:
Summers' Pegasus is located in Europe. Small, but good, it was designed by Summers just before his death. Next, Curtis Summers was structural engineer for Kings Island during the Beast's construction, wihch he was closely involved with, as well as King's Dominions Rebel Yell. This is all clearly stated in Amusement magazines (First Drop #17 for all you ECC emmbers)
That magazine, published in the early 90s was a tribute to the then recent passing of Mr. Summers.
Please don't say someones claims are false when you don't know all the facts, and please be respectful of those who like Mr. Summers coasters. Any Texas Giant fans out there?
Summers' Pegasus is located in Europe. Small, but good, it was designed by Summers just before his death. Next, Curtis Summers was structural engineer for Kings Island during the Beast's construction, wihch he was closely involved with, as well as King's Dominions Rebel Yell. This is all clearly stated in Amusement magazines (First Drop #17 for all you ECC emmbers)
That magazine, published in the early 90s was a tribute to the then recent passing of Mr. Summers.
Please don't say someones claims are false when you don't know all the facts, and please be respectful of those who like Mr. Summers coasters. Any Texas Giant fans out there?
My question is then, "why dont PKI have Summers name any where near the construction of these coasters then? (On their web site that is) Or is this suppose to be like common knowledge, that Summers worked with PKI construction? Sorry but not all of us are experts on who worked for who at what time, or who built what coaster. :) Like me!! LOL And isnt there a coaster named Pegasus at the Dells?
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Ride it hard, long, and furious!
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Ride it hard, long, and furious!
I asked to give me a good coaster HE built, and I still see none. IF Bringing up some baby coaster( pegasus ) in a third world country is one of your best examples, then I think I proved my point...
That is a good point tohot, why doesn't PKI list Summers as designer of the beast?.....Maybe they wanted people to ride it?.....Well this was a good laugh, but some people have to work...see ya in a few days.
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Puff'n the Winston..Drink'n a 4-O..Toofast, and I'm gona let ya know. *** This post was edited by ToofastGM3 on 12/15/99. ***
That is a good point tohot, why doesn't PKI list Summers as designer of the beast?.....Maybe they wanted people to ride it?.....Well this was a good laugh, but some people have to work...see ya in a few days.
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Puff'n the Winston..Drink'n a 4-O..Toofast, and I'm gona let ya know. *** This post was edited by ToofastGM3 on 12/15/99. ***
I think the problem with most of the Dinn/Summers coasters are maintenance. I know MS was good when it opened. I've heard that the Wolverine Wildcat (D/S 1st coaster) at MA and The Predator at SFDL were very good when they first opened around 1990. If you look at these three today, you'll find rough rides. Now look at the Texas Giant. It's consistantly at the top of wooden coaster lists and always on the Discovery channel specials (so is MS, but that's a different story). Why? SFoT takes care of it. They're always working on it: retracking, reprofiling, etc. They acutally restructured part of it either last year or the one before. That's why people think it's good. It's pampered. Look at the other three I mentioned. Two (WW, Predator) are at smaller parks without the proper maintenance budget and the other (MS) is being maintained incorrectly (coughGREASETHERAILScoughNEWTRAINScough). People, don't blame the designers completely here. You've gotta take care of a good thing.
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Scott W. Short
sshort@mediaone.net
http://welcome.to/midwestcoastercentral
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Scott W. Short
sshort@mediaone.net
http://welcome.to/midwestcoastercentral
Well, to get back on the topic of the Boardwalk Project...
Let't review: The majority seems to want DT removed and replaced with one of the following: A woodie, a floorless, or a mad mouse.
What else would you like to see appear on this area of the park? Remember, as Jeff said, that 2000 is the final year for the stadium formerly known as Oceana. So that is going to open up a nice chunk of space! I imagine that maybe some flat rides (whirl & hurl) and possibly even a dark ride (which they are in desparate need of)
Any thoughts?
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Neil
Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-1
Let't review: The majority seems to want DT removed and replaced with one of the following: A woodie, a floorless, or a mad mouse.
What else would you like to see appear on this area of the park? Remember, as Jeff said, that 2000 is the final year for the stadium formerly known as Oceana. So that is going to open up a nice chunk of space! I imagine that maybe some flat rides (whirl & hurl) and possibly even a dark ride (which they are in desparate need of)
Any thoughts?
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Neil
Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-1
Without proper maintanence?
Michigan's Adventure is the home of Shivering Timbers, which has ranked 1 & 2 the last two years...
It is worked on, whilst running, no less, and is constantly rehammered, retracked, and corrected. Zach's Zoomer, one of CCI's first, is in great shape. Corkscrew, ugly-as-**** station aside, is fine. WW just rattles like hell, at least as badly as MS's first drop, although it's not moving quite so fast. It's just a poor design. Aesthetically pleasing, but a poor design.
Heck, they just put in 2 new coasters last year. I think they can maintain a woodie. Especially a small one.
Michigan's Adventure is the home of Shivering Timbers, which has ranked 1 & 2 the last two years...
It is worked on, whilst running, no less, and is constantly rehammered, retracked, and corrected. Zach's Zoomer, one of CCI's first, is in great shape. Corkscrew, ugly-as-**** station aside, is fine. WW just rattles like hell, at least as badly as MS's first drop, although it's not moving quite so fast. It's just a poor design. Aesthetically pleasing, but a poor design.
Heck, they just put in 2 new coasters last year. I think they can maintain a woodie. Especially a small one.
Bill,
I agree with you completely about MA's latest maintenance policy. When you've got a world-class ride like ST, you're gonna take care of it. That's why they're out there hammering the structure and greasing the rails during operation. But what was their maintenance policy like pre-ST or even pre-ZZ? That's when I think WW took a turn for the worse. Plus, being right smack-dab of the lake effect snow region of Michigan doesn't help. After eleven years of harsh winter, something's gotta give. Hopefully MA and CCI thought of that with ST and ZZ. Regarding the layout of WW, it's nearly identical to the Knoebel's Phoenix. Go figure.
Now to get back on topic, I think the boredwalk project is kewl! it rOcKz! MF rulz! I'm stopping now :)
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Scott W. Short
sshort@mediaone.net
http://welcome.to/midwestcoastercentral
I agree with you completely about MA's latest maintenance policy. When you've got a world-class ride like ST, you're gonna take care of it. That's why they're out there hammering the structure and greasing the rails during operation. But what was their maintenance policy like pre-ST or even pre-ZZ? That's when I think WW took a turn for the worse. Plus, being right smack-dab of the lake effect snow region of Michigan doesn't help. After eleven years of harsh winter, something's gotta give. Hopefully MA and CCI thought of that with ST and ZZ. Regarding the layout of WW, it's nearly identical to the Knoebel's Phoenix. Go figure.
Now to get back on topic, I think the boredwalk project is kewl! it rOcKz! MF rulz! I'm stopping now :)
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Scott W. Short
sshort@mediaone.net
http://welcome.to/midwestcoastercentral
First of all, Curtis Summers died *exactly* one year after Mean Streak opened, on May 11, 1992. Have a look at http://www.rollercoaster.com/roller_coaster_almanac/may#11 to see what I mean. Summers (and his company) did the designing, then Charlie Dinn did the construction. Dinn had announced his retirement just before Summers' death, and it's Dinn's family and a couple of engineers from Curtis D. Summers, Inc. who formed Custom Coasters. Personally, I think Cedar Point should dedicate Mean Streak as a memorial to Curt Summers, as it is his biggest achievement. Trouble is, it has rideability problems which, based on my experiences on Thunder Run at Kentucky Kingdom, has more to do with the crap seats in the train than with anything that Summers did.
Summers built coasters that pushed coaster building technology to its limits; unfortunately there is a bad combination at work here. Parks that don't, for whatever reason, seem to recognize some of the maintenance requirements of the rides. Experimental 'low maintenance' seat inserts that hold up nicely, but make for a nearly unrideable coaster. And track designs that are more extreme than the trains are capable of running.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
(and what I wanted to mention last night but didn't remember that I wanted to include. This editor box is bad with Netscape; it's **** near impossible using Lynx...)
Indeed, both Summers and Dinn came out of Taft Entertainment...both were in Kings Island's design, construction, and maintenance department. Most of the buildings and structures at Kings Island were built under Summers' engineering stamp.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Indeed, both Summers and Dinn came out of Taft Entertainment...both were in Kings Island's design, construction, and maintenance department. Most of the buildings and structures at Kings Island were built under Summers' engineering stamp.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Closed topic.