Taft OKs minimum-wage exceptions for Ohio (including amusement Parks)

Parks in Ohio will not get minimum wage

Link
*** Edited 1/3/2007 10:42:21 PM UTC by kidcoaster***

Edit to make link shorter - Walt
*** Edited 1/4/2007 5:21:58 AM UTC by Walt***

There's a good thread going on over at Coasterbuzz.

http://www.coasterbuzz.com/2007-3-558960.htm

*** Edited 1/3/2007 11:20:09 PM UTC by Red Garter Rob***

Thank goodness! I was so afraid Cedar Fair would have to overpay its employees. If you ask me, they should abolish the minimum wage altogether, pay 'em 50 cents an hour. That should bring in some real go-getters.

Sarcasm supplied free of charge. ;)

Well that really sucks. I'm going to think hard about working at Geauga Lake, at current wages I'd be close to only breaking even due to the drive (from Akron).

That's right! Let's forget that Cedar Point has paid above the minimum wage for years because - gasp! - the market dictated it. And this year, they have the audacity to offer a bonus to once again take the effective hourly wage above the mandated - with exceptions - minimum.

Those poor teenagers and college kids, working to support their beer fund and earn spending money ... they need the government and the good voters of the state of Ohio to protect them from the evil corporate amusement park. No 19-year old should have to work for such a low wage at a fun, summer job! Teenagers working in an unskilled job should earn $20 an hour. Oh why can't this horrible capitalistic society have more compassion and adopt a loving socialistic view? I mean, what else would could these kids do if they didn't like the pay at Cedar Point? Go somewhere else and work? That's just silly. There are no options!

My sarcasm is also free because it would be heartless of me to charge for it. :)

When I read that whole thread I just laugh. Lets keep wages for "Unskilled" jobs at 30 cents an hour, then everyone will go to collage and get a good education.

Someone has to do some of these jobs and they should be entitled to a decent wage. 6-7 is decent.

EDIT: Not a reply to Walts post. *** Edited 1/4/2007 2:26:03 AM UTC by CP4eva'04***

Well, since all of you are barking back and forth over this issue, I think I should shine some light on it from the Cedar Point & Lake Erie Railroad's point of view.

I'm an Engineer on the Railroad. Yes I am only 19 myself, but we had members on our crew last season of all ages up to age 49. Our daily routine is actual labor compared to, (no offense) the ride op's that sit and push buttons, check safety restraints, and read spiel's for hours everyday.

We polish our locomotives, hand wash them, oil, grease, shovel coal, fill our tenders with water, and tend to a fire all day-every day. Every time we pull out of a station we have the life's of 200-400 people in our hands on each train. It is an precision art and skilled job to keep a steam locomotive running and maintained on a start/stop basis of 5-7 minutes between stations. At night before our shift is over, we have to hand fill each tender with a little over a half ton of coal each day. We do this by sifting the coal with pitch forks, load it into 5 gallon buckets, and then lift them to the tender and dump them. This is fun at 11:30 at night after a 12 hour shift sitting next to a hot boiler all day at 110 degree's outside. When it's needed, we have to do track maintenance, which does involve hand driving spikes, replacing ties and rail.

Remember overall, this is a live boiler in operation. Not something just anyone can operate.

You may ask why we do this, many reasons that some may understand and some may not. It's just not something you can stick a new person on to operate at random times through the season. The majority of us on the crew like or have a passion for railroading, which is a dieing art today. We understand what it takes to operate a railroad. This is just simply stated...

This brings me to the main point of this topic... We only get payed the same as a general ride op on any other ride in the park. I'm not begging for a pay raise, but at least the minimum wage that Ohio just passed. Back in the earlier years of the Railroad, crew members got payed double what the general ride operators were payed. Last season, Team leader’s on a normal ride were payed $6.55, Engineer’s on the railroad were payed $6.40.

That is enough ranting on for now, and i'm not trying to start any argument, but NO sarcasm shown…

:)

*** Edited 1/4/2007 3:35:25 AM UTC by cp&le rr guy***

The problem I have with it is that if you're going to increase it, everyone is going to suffer with the increase in prices and possible increase unemployment, not just those who are getting a pay increase and those with salaries. Why should a group of a few be left behind and still have to pay for the, now, more expensive products (if that really happens) with the money they're making at a lower rate? Whether it's an amusement park or not is beside the point.

*** Edited 1/4/2007 4:15:38 AM UTC by DBCP***

Walt,
Let's not forget that these teenagers and college kids supporting their beer funds also run the rides that you cherish so much! How dare you say things to the people that make your park what it is?!!? I am a former employee of Cedar Point, I was a part of this year's Top Thrill Dragster crew. I worked hard for my money, as did everyone else on that crew. Most of these people work all summer for money for books for school, not beer. Yes, we enjoy a good time, don't interpret this as me saying we don't.
Unskilled? There's more to it than pushing buttons. You would be very surpised to know what we know. After so long you know every sound that your ride should make, when there is the slightest difference in sound, we know. Don't call me unskilled.
The minimum wage exception isn't a good thing. After working for fourteen sometimes sixteen hours a day for three weeks straight with no day off, talk to me about being underpaid.
I love Cedar Point as much as the next person, but please don't bite the hand that feeds you online, have the decency to tell me in person when I check your next lap bar.

First of all ChrisP OH SNAP!!! Walt I am very very upset over what you said!!!!! Who was it on boobuzz that had TTD up and running early so you guys could ride for longer than the hour the park gave you? thats right those alcoholic teens that work Top Thrill Dragster!! We came in early so those trains would shine for you guys thanks for appreciating us!!!!!!!

In Walt's defense, he did indicate he was using sarcasm, and he did charge us exactly what it was worth. ;)

More seriously, when I was 18, I had my own apartment. I had to work two jobs just to make ends meet. That was in 1985, when minimum wage was $3.35/hour. It sounds like less, but actually for true purchasing power, I made more than kids working today for $5.15. Working at an amusement park only makes sense if you have rich parents, or if you're getting ready to join a monastery and declare a vow of poverty.

I think a lot of people completely missed the point of my post. I worked at Cedar Point for 6 (*six*) seasons. I made no more than $4.75/hr as a union landscaper my first summer. And I didn't get an hourly bonus. That was only 1993. We're not talking about the dark ages here (well, to some it might be :) ). Been there, have the t-shirt. I am a proud alum.

If you think that I have something other than the utmost respect for the seasonal employees at Cedar Point, than you seriously do not know who I am. My post was all about simple economics and labor in America today, and I used sarcastic language to drive home a point that has nothing to do with Cedar Point or the fine people it employs. So let's make that perfectly clear from the start.

cp= rr guy: I have no doubt the skill and work that it takes to be an engineer. But the job pays what it pays. It's just economics. You can either come to the conclusion that the total package, including pay, is worth it, or you can come to the conclusion that it is not. I think you would agree with me that the experience is more than worth it. The wage is not a reflection on how hard you, or any other Cedar Point employee, works. It's just what the job is, for better or worse.

Christopher Penley said:
I worked hard for my money, as did everyone else on that crew. Most of these people work all summer for money for books for school, not beer.

Like I said, the wage is not a reflection on how hard you work, but on what the job is. And no, despite how it sometimes seems in the PointBuzz Employee Lounge, not everyone spends their paycheck at Louie's. :) "Beer money" is just part of the sarcastic language I used to make my point that, for the most part, we're not talking about people who are trying to earn a living or support a family.

I'm not anti-Cedar Point employee because I don't advocate huge hourly rates. My post above could be applied to any summer job, whatever it may be. It wasn't a knock on Cedar Point workers. But it is a summer job. That's what those types of jobs pay. The market dictates that. If it was based on how much I like Cedar Point employees or on other emotional issues, the wage would be much higher. But it is what it is, and there's nothing wrong with what it is.

Unskilled? There's more to it than pushing buttons. You would be very surpised to know what we know. After so long you know every sound that your ride should make, when there is the slightest difference in sound, we know. Don't call me unskilled.

Check the word in a labor/economic context. Unskilled doesn't mean you have no skill. Unskilled, in this context, means the job requires a minimum amount of education or technical training. Unskilled is not a negative word. It's merely a description of the type of job. That's intentionally bold. Please read it again and understand this point. The last thing I want is for someone to read my post and to falsely interpret it as meaning I think Cedar Point workers have no skill. Nothing could be further from the truth.

talk to me about being underpaid.

I've said this a couple of times, but it's worth repeating. The wage is not a reflection on how hard you work. As you move on and obtain full-time employment, you'll probably find that your wage does indeed become a reflection on how hard you work. Your salary will become directly tied to what you specifically bring to the company. But that's not how summer jobs work. These jobs pay what they pay, no matter what an employee brings to the table. Cedar Point seasonal employees don't individually negotiate their salaries.

You obviously found the experience to outweigh whatever downsides there were, much as I did when I worked there for six summers. Those are the choices we all make. I think I made a great choice and ten years later I still miss working there, "low wage" and all.

have the decency to tell me in person when I check your next lap bar.

I'd have this same discussion with anyone in person. In fact, in person, it would probably come off better because my sarcasm would be better detected. :) But what you said is pretty immature. If you're going to attack and falsely accuse me because you failed to understand my post, at least have the decency not to make a veiled threat.

arms_down said:
First of all ChrisP OH SNAP!!! Walt I am very very upset over what you said!!!!!

Again, I hope by this point in my post, you understand it was absolutely not a knock on Cedar Point employees, and not even really related to Cedar Point when you get down to it. It's just an economics debate. I don't feel those kinds of seasonal jobs need to be high wage or living wage jobs unless the market dictates it. It has nothing to do with Cedar Point or it's excellent workforce.

If you're looking for a summer job, you can make $6-something an hour just about anywhere. What sets Cedar Point apart is the unmatched experience it provides. In that respect, you "earn" much, much more at Cedar Point than you would in any other of the available options. And that is clearly demonstrated with the exceptional, industry-leading seasonal employees that make Cedar Point their home in the summer.

Ensign Smith said:
Working at an amusement park only makes sense if you have rich parents, or if you're getting ready to join a monastery and declare a vow of poverty.

Or, perhaps, if you're a college kid who wants to make some cash before going back to school. I mean, isn't it a summer job? It would be pretty hard for someone to support a family by working seasonally at an amusement park.

Anyway, I hope this lengthy post will clear up any misconceptions anyone had from my first post.

So let's review...

CP already pays over minimum wage. By a lot.
It's not skilled labor, and you get paid what the job mandates.
This is not an emotional issue.

Yay! That was simple.

Funny Jeff... :)

Unskilled labor basically means that the training required is not extensive. I guess an example would be nice to illustrate the difference. The train engine house crew is borderline between skilled and unskilled labor. The training that they need to become a fireman and then engineer is extensive. It takes a long time to be able to fireman and engineer a train without help. Skilled labor would be basically anything more than that. A job that requires extensive knowledge and/or ability is skilled labor. If you can learn how to do a job in weeks or months, it's not skilled labor.

A team leader at Top Thrill Dragster is an unskilled labor position. Joe, the person who programmed the ride was in a skilled labor position.

This label is not trying to be offensive to those that are holding a position that is unskilled labor. It is just the economic way of differentiating between jobs that require great skill like an engineer or a CEO and those that require less skill then that. *** Edited 1/4/2007 5:58:29 AM UTC by Jump to Conclusions***

Is there even any indication that CP will roll back wages to what they were? Their website jobs FAQ still says $6.25 an hour, but I thought someone told me it said $6.85 somewhere during the application process. I have no doubt they'll lose quite a few good employees if they keep the pay where it is now. Not necessarily because of economics, but because they'll feel screwed over.

In an email send by Matt Ozoskey to all returning employees:

Email from Matt Ozoskey:
PAY RATE
The 2007 base wage package:
$6.85
for all hours worked
Only employees who complete their contracted agreement will receive their Bonus

It mentions a bonus but does not state how much it is.

The bonus has been $1/hour for years. I don't think that has changed any. As I stated over at Coasterbuzz...I think the pay a rather meaningless discussion.

Now, take a look at housing and other amenities and we can have a rocking conversation. Saddam had better facilities than Gold and Cedars while he was awaiting execution...and that really isn't as sarcastic as it sounds.

Thats a sad fact.

My post from Coasterbuzz:

I won't go so far as to say the wages are sub-standard. $6.85 plus the bonus isn't too bad for what is fairly simple work. Now, the problem is that the McDonald's, Holiday Inn's and so forth of the world have found that they are having trouble staffing at lower levels and they are raising their wages to compensate and attract better (relative) help.

So, you can make $7 or so an hour flipping burgers, working in a gift shop, etc at the Point or make that and more staying at home. At home, you have access to all the comforts, no roommates, etc. Of course, there are some jobs the Point generally doesn't have trouble filling such as rides or games. But, fast food is fast food whether you are at an amusement park or in a mall.

So, why go to the Point? At this point you have to sell an experience and the experience ain't all that when it comes to housing...that is for sure.

I worked on the Disney College Program. I think I made about $5.30 an hour and I paid something like $70 per week for housing. The housing was, in essence, a condominium. Full kitchen, cable tv, (no internet back then but they have it now), tennis courts, several large pools, volleyball courts, free access to the parks, discounts for Pleasure Island (a far cry from Louie's), comfortable transportation back and forth to work, etc.

Again, I don't expect Cedar Point to be Disney but there is a middle ground between Gold and Cedars (and even some of the off Point housing is seriously aging) and what Disney provides.

When I went to work at the Point I had been warned about housing. I was a bit older than the average employee and had been hired in Accommodations. I didn't make any demands but I strongly asked to be housed somewhere other than the dorms and I was put in the hotel. That room wasn't exactly lovely (not a hotel room like it sounds) but it was functional. Had I been shown a room at Cedars I would have turned around and left...and would have had to drive all the way to Florida to get home. I'm not being snotty about it...but that is how ridiculous it is to believe they still put people there. How those buildings pass today's fire codes is beyond me.

My greatest fear about bad news I could hear from the Point has nothing to do with ride accidents, drownings, or anything like that. My greatest fear is that there is an emergency in one of those facilities. Frankly, I think it is a miracle it hasn't happened yet.

Someone get this man a drink! He is making sense.