Space shuttle Columbia is missing...

Disney should follow through as planned but consider their marketing of the ride carefully. They aren't closing the Kennedy Space Center Visitor's complex as a result of this accident.

As for the continued exploration of space, I am for it. 14 people have died in the 20 + years the Shuttle has been flying. 27 people died in a commuter plane accident a few weeks back. Are we going to stop flying in commuter planes?

Whether it is the current fleet of shuttles or a new breed we will continue to go into space because we are explorers. Why do people risk their lives to climb Everest? Why do people parachute, rock climb, drag race, scuba dive, ride rollercoasters, etc?

My paper today told the story of the woman who is the commander of the next scheduled shuttle mission. She is ready to go. If they let me I would ride up with her.

Is there really a Risk of riding Roller Coasters?

But, that is so true Chief...about taking risks. People die in Car accidents. Doesnt mean we'll stop driving them. We just have to move on.
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- Dennis
NYC Subways, The next best thing to riding roller coasters.

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Digital Daredevil said:

2Hostyl, I only called you "Space Boy" because you assumed that I wore Velcro Shoes. Which I never have, and never will...hopefully.

Do you currently work in the field? Or are you still training? And no, I am not being a smarty pants.

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Touche! I appologize for the VELCRO shoes suggestion. I was merely touching on some of the improments brought about by the space program. I didnt really mean it as an insult (If I'd intended to be insulting, I'd have said someing about invisible braces ;))

And no, am I no longer monetarily tied to aerospace. I actually do the work of an Electrical Engineer. I relish the days working on experimental Pulsed Plasma Thrusters (Electric Propulsion), but it was not in the cards to purse that as a long term career for me.

But, you can sort of say that I am still training. I am taking a hiatus from a MS degree program. But that was dealing more with the aeronautics side (rotory flight).

lata, jeremy

--who *did* own a pair of VELCRO strapped running shoes....

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redbrigade said:

The computer in my 2002 Mustang has more memory and capability than that "flying brick" does. Although the astronauts were very brave I will say again that they were the victim of institutional incompetence. The NASA of today is in no way comparable to the NASA that took Buzz Aldrin to the moon!

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I'll give you that. NASA isn't what it used to be. And they are, as an institution, in need of an overhaul, especially in the unmanned flight division. "Cheaper, faster" didn't work. The shuttle was not a victim of that though. One of the reasons that their other programs weren't as successful was that, as Congress lowered their budget, they chose to cut budgets of other programs and leave the shuttle/ISS budgets as intact as possible. So while I agree they are, as a bureaucracy, in need of fresh blood, I strongly feel that wasn't the cause of last Saturday's disaster.

--James

BigD, everything has a risk. Even before you wake up in the morning, you're life is at risk. :-) Not really a pleasent thought.

Speedy, in my opinion, Disney has no need to delay their Epcot attraction opening. That's just stupid.

Chief, I agree. If offered the oppurtunity to go into space right now, I'd take it. I accept the risk.

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The InCrowd™
http://www.theincrowd.tk

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speedy said:
The bad thing is that its going to be at least 12 years before NASA comes up with a whole new breed of spaceship, and they're not making one immediately to replace Columbia (like they built endeavor or atlantis- i forget- after the challenger).

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Endeavour was built on a very tight budget. Many of it's parts were spare parts used to cut costs. It is nearly impossible now to replace a shuttle in the same way they were built. Many of the original contractors have either gone out of buisness or moved on to other projects.

-craig
*** This post was edited by wings51 2/7/2003 10:55:51 PM ***

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MDOmnis said:

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redbrigade said:
Some sparkler; 2.3 billion dollars and seven human lives extinguished through obvious incompetence and mismanagement.

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Sorry, but I don't get how people can say engineers at NASA are incompetent. They are some of the most brilliant people in the world and I'm fairly confident when I say that neither of us has any right to call them incompetent. Also, there really isn't any evidence, at least yet, that lack of funding or mismanagement led to this disaster. If it was the foam flying off during launch that caused damage to the tiles, then that's what it is. They can't repair a tile in space. The only thing they might have been able to do was rush another shuttle up there to evacuate the crew in a procedure that would have probably been more risky than trying to land Columbia in the first place. Get a clue and realize that the space program has given you many of the things you use today that rely on satallites, etc and don't say they are incompetent.

-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew

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Ok the correct phrase should be" institutionalized murder of 7 astronauts". NASA has long been incompetent where shuttle safety is concerned and their budget has been cut by 700 million dollars over the past 5 yrs. No wonder it blew up!

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MDOmnis said:
Okay! :) Jeremy and I agree yet again! That's like three times now! :) Any more and I'll start gettting worried... ;)

You're totally right with your point about the wheels too. I watched the demo they had on I think MSNBC last night about the tiles. The guy had a tile from the shuttle which was about the size of say half a red brick. He held it in his hand on one side of the tile and on the other side, he held a blow torch to it for about 30 seconds. The spot where the torch was turned orange, but the side with his hand was still cool. Then when he removed the torch, the tile instantly turned white again. No char marks or anything. Then he placed it in the reporter's hands about 5 seconds later. The guy said it was no warmer than a piece of toast. That was cool! :)

Comparing even the most complex coaster to the shuttle is just ridiculous!

-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew
*** This post was edited by MDOmnis 2/4/2003 3:49:17 PM ***

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And do you know what happens if you handle an actual shuttle tile with your bare hands? It has to be thrown out because the skin oil in human hands can damage the darn thing! Turn NASA back over to the USAF!

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2Hostyl said:
DD: While it is accurate to say that many government workers can find better paying jobs in the private sector, the Aerospace industry is the exception that proves the rule. The engineers on both sides of the line in NASA's get paid comparably. Trust me, I know. I'm an Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineer by training.

And "penny pinching" is "just" as common in private companies as it is in governement. I will grant you that there tends to be a tad more buracracy on the governement's side, but the "salesmen" in the private sector with often make promises on price that there is no way in hades the engineers can meet. Private sector ideas get scaled back too. As you said, you DONT know about NASA. And in this case, you are simply mistaken.

One more thing, if you wish to insult/patronize me, do better than "Space Boy". I would *think* that wouldnt be too difficult for a man over thirty!

redbrigade: I *do* know my homework. But let me tell you a few things. The "X" designation has been used on various types of aircraft since the X-1, the first supersonic plane. The "X" is basically the designation for (duh) experimental or concept aircraft. All of them have tried to demonstrate some advance in the aerospace field. True, the research there at Dryden was pushing the envelope and of course the things learned there were part of the knowledge base of those engineers. But how you see a direct corellation between the X-15 and the space shuttle is beyond me. The X-24 I could see, but even that is only natural as the X-24 was the radical cutting edge "state of the art" technology during the time of the Shuttle's development (the X-24 was tested b/w '69-'75).

Those pilots died because they were treading on new ground. This is nothing new, tragic, but not new. Anytime humans have venture into new fields, people have died. If you want to say that the engineers didnt know what they were doing....then you would be right! You know why BECAUSE NO ONE HAD DONE IT BEFORE. Cedar Point's amusement rides are so far within the realm of existing technology that I question my own sanity even confronting this. NOTHING, not even TTD comes *close* to pressing the boundaries that the "X" planes did. You, my friend, are simply misguided trying to compare the two.

BTW: The "United Space" bid was the lowest because they already had the core compenticies needed to meet the task, not because they were "skimping" as you seem to suggest.

lata, jeremy

--Argue with me about something NOT aerospace related. You'll have a higher success rate.

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You must not have read my bit about "lifting bodies" ie X-24. The data generated by these testing programs is probably still being researched 35 yrs later. The shuttle is a horrible idea and should be replaced!

red,

You must need a rest after all that. Go lie down.

MrScott

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"If we go any faster, she'll blow apart for sure!"

Yea I know, I get abit exighted by NASA incompetence. I remember the days of Apollo quite well;when NASA actually had some focus and a real purpose..ok

They certainly did have a lot of focus in the Apollo days. They were trying to get to the moon before Russia did.

But as mentioned before, it's still a risky business. Look at all the successful flights, both Apollo and Shuttle. And look at the number of accidents (BOTH Apollo and Shuttle).

You may feel that NASA has lost it's focus, but until some issues can be worked out, specifically how anyone can survive in space long enough to reach other planets without muscle deterioration, you likely won't see much more than space station trips.

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I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead

I think that issue is being dealt with through the use of pharmecuticals. There are drugs out there that can build bone mass.

I hope that the ISP can be used as a launching platform for a manned Mars mission. Now that would be neat rather than sending what essentially was a 350 million dollar transistor radio with wheels and a few solar cells to Mars. Has anyone read about the hidden cost overruns on that little abortion?

Its time for the head of the space program (Vice President Cheney) to at least clean house!

The space program is fine....

Umm...

Craig said it best with "Umm..."

Do date stamps not mean anything to you?
February 14, 2003, 4:23A was the last post in this thread....Well, before you brought it back up.
It's one thing to bring back an old thread, but when you bring absolutely nothing to the discussion....

Wow.

He's on a roll... this is like the 4th one today.

Bringing back ancient threads is annoying. Don't do it.