Snake River Expedition Closing?

Maybe I’m biased having five younger kids, but as Kevin mentioned. It seems like in a few short years they’ve destroyed exactly what changed Cedar Point from a single day park, to a place we’d have multiple multi-day trips a season.

Its seems extremely short sighted to cut these things, as I think the family demographic of visitors is what brings in the money. If I go by myself, I’m not buying souvenirs, staying at Hotel Breakers, etc. I’m going there riding some rides and leaving. When the whole family goes it’s a substantial cost when you add up food, hotel, souvenirs, etc. This is something I think families have no problem spending, if there’s value in actually bringing the whole family there. Another example of this is the Halloween parade, which got axed for the 150 parade, which has also been axed. I have to feel like this is the slow undoing of everything Matt Ouimet did with the company.

I agree completely with Aaronosmer. When I go by myself, I'm doing exactly what was mentioned above. When I'm bringing my wife and daughter with me, it's Hotel Breakers and many additional expenses in the park. I'm fine with that. Perhaps Cedar Point has done some kind of cost-benefit analysis and has concluded these are the best decisions financially for the park. How do we know? We don't have that information. If they find out down the road these choices were wrong, they certainly have the option to change course.

All will be forgiven and forgotten when they announce the log flume being built on the island for 2025.

Tony mentioned wanting a log flume his streaming session with Mike on TT2. And mentioned he wanted a log flume again during the informal Q&A session with my group at WCO last weekend. He asked people in our group what new ride people wanted to see. Those who volunteered anything included a 500 ft coaster of course. Who knows what 2025 and beyond will bring?

I think a log ride or expansion of Millennium Island is highly unlikely in the near term. CF seems hyper focused right now on cutting costs and increasing profits. I don't think that a highly custom log ride or expanding an already large park fits with that focus. I think we'll continue to see more of what we've been seeing: relatively conservative, moderately priced new rides to replace aging ones (and "transformations" when possible) alongside refreshed F&B, retail, and resort offerings.

I suggest that some European style bathrooms (WC) will result in increasing profits. The kind you have to put a Euro coin in to enter the turnstile. Those always seem to be clean at least! Lets suggest that for the Magnum bathrooms, make them pay to enter and hire a full time janitor. Kills two birds with one stone (cleanliness and profitability).

What a silly idea. Everyone knows that CP no longer accepts cash.

blauer:

Cedar Fair is a floundering company. Their attendance is decreasing, and they only are maintaining profits by cost cutting.

It's almost as if the previous regime sort of realized that parks like CP were pretty maxed out as far as attendance and started doing things to create a more premium experience for which more money could be charged. Things such as Brew and BBQ, specialty drinks, remodeled Hotel Breakers with an added bar, beach events with food and drinks, Saw Mill Creek, Sports Facilities, E-Sports facilities, etc.

With the Six Flags merger, there should be more opportunities to build hotels and upscale some of the nicer parks like Six Flags Great Adventure, Six Flags over Texas, etc. But they seem to be going more the direction of making all parks, including Cedar Point and Knotts into cheaper, homogenous experiences more akin to Six Flags America (does everyone know Jeff was on Superman when the chain snapped? :))

Please just don't be like Six Flags over Georgia was Saturday night. Opening weekend, brawls, police involved shooting, teens arrested.

Worlds of Fun brawl was just last year... opening weekend I believe.

Across social media I keep seeing the argument being made that “well the park just added a brand new boardwalk with a family coaster and a dining area, so be happy!”

A: the boardwalk is made up of entirely not new rides relocated from somewhere else with the exception of Wild Mouse. B: the new dining area opening resulted in the closing of multiple food stands and restaurants across the entire park. So the reality is, they broke even at best in terms of overall experience.

As a parent with children who are at awkward heights right now, the entire Forbidden Frontier area would have been awesome for us, but instead, within 3 short years the park gave up on all of it. And please don’t get me started on the Town Hall project. COVID isn’t an excuse anymore. They never had any intention of completing that project.

Does this all spell out a gloomy future for Cedar Point? Not sure. Kings Island is getting another family based expansion of the Snoopy area this year and it looks pretty awesome. Perhaps the focus of Cedar Point is also shifting. Who knows what the future holds for now?

The Boardwalk is a lovely addition. But you are correct; adding the Boardwalk does not make up for the loss of Forbidden Frontier and all it came with and now SRE. The Boardwalk and the Frontier family-focused area complimented one-another at different ends of the park.

I don't think it's all doom-and-gloom, but a merger with Six Flags sure doesn't make any of this an easy pill to swallow. There was a good reason Ouimet jumped ship when he did.

As far as the town hall, they did mention that the money for that was redirected to sawmill creek. Per the TT2 livestream. They moved the $ where it would help make more $.

Remodel or not, there is no reason at this point for the space to remain shuttered. That's called bad management. The Town Hall in Frontier Town is a centerpiece building of the entire area. To ignore that is to ignore the guest experience actually had inside the park, which should trump everything else.

But OK. Three cheers for Sawmill.

I heard Tony say at WCO something along the lines of they're very committed to showcasing the parks long history, but it doesn't necessarily all need to be under one roof.

To me, that's nothing more than hollow PR speak that translates to "Town Hall doesn't generate enough revenue for us to care about opening it back up, so we're not going to. Please instead enjoy the few pictures we'll sprinkle throughout the park."

GL2CP:

As far as the town hall, they did mention that the money for that was redirected to sawmill creek.

See, under Ouimet, I would have been optimistic that the revenue generated by the Sawmill Creek property would thereafter be used to help fund things like Town Hall, which don't directly generate revenue in the same quantifiable way a ride or restaurant does. But under this team, it's becoming apparent that they don't really care about the guest experience in the same way, and that is obviously concerning.

As I understood it at the time, Cedar Fair's diversification (Sports Force Park, Sawmill, etc.) was an effort to broaden their revenue stream beyond seasonal parks, and a portion of that revenue would have helped fund park investment, and that there'd be a symbiotic, mutually-beneficial relationship between the parks and other properties. But that's not what is happening apparently.

mgou58:
Not sure. Kings Island is getting another family based expansion of the Snoopy area this year and it looks pretty awesome.

It's a neat addition at KI, but at the end of the day they're installing an off-the-shelf model Vekoma coaster and a play area, repainting an existing coaster, and adding some Camp Snoopy theming. It's nice, but it's not exactly an Earth shattering investment.

I think when leadership states: we redirected funds that were allocated to celebrate our parks history and put those funds into an off-property resort that doesn’t celebrate our history in any way whatsoever is pretty telling of their priorities, at least in the way of history is concerned. (Yes that is not a direct quote of what was said, but it is the intention)

And honestly, I’d love to know the cost of the Town Hall project and in what way those funds specifically helped with Sawmill Creek’s remodeling.

And DJ that’s a fair point about Kings Island, but I think my point was the nature of their investments: they’ve put a lot of thought into enhancing the overall experience and I’d argue any day of the week that KI is far more family friendly than Cedar Point.

Would investing in Town Hall be an Earth shattering investment?

Could it be what appeals to typical Cedar Point visitors is different than what appeals to enthusiasts?

While many of you have a lot of good points, I have to defend the Grand Pavilion here. The only food stand I can think of that closed as result of it is the lakeside place by Gatekeeper that used to sell Perch (which was barely open in prior years anyway) and the Roost which also was barely open. I guess you could maybe add Johnny Rockets and Mac Shack but the latter was barely open either.

At any rate, I think Pavilion's food capacity probably trumped all those (combined) anyway and certainly raised quality a notch. Not to mention it has one of (if not the best) bar in the park and awesome views. I get the rest of the boardwalk was relocated rides aside from Wild Mouse but overall I think that area was a slam dunk. I agree it doesn't absolve them of the FF, SRE, and Town Hall losses though.

I’ve had the same question about Town Hall II. And I know we are disappointed, but no more so than when the announcement was made. The relics went away only to be replaced with graphics and photos? I mean, who was that excited over a wall sized Rotor graphic? (Besides me…)

If they’re so strapped I’d be willing to start a go fund me to raise the 250 bucks for new wall paint, some relocated benches, and a new counter for Ken and crew. What’s really missing is one of the only relaxing air conditioned indoor spaces in Frontiertown and to leave it open wouldn’t have to require much. If they can take abandoned J Rockets and install a portable maze, and if they can develop over-sized postcard graphics for Pavilion then they have to see the value in Town Hall and the simple possibilities.