Seat belt lenght

Kevinj said:

You stated that most coasters are designed so that no restraint is necessary. At all.

That's when I jumped on board. Did you mis-speak here? I certainly am not taking anything out of context.

You started off by saying the seat belts are merely cosmetic, but then shifted into stating that intimate objects could sit in a coaster seat and return to the station perfectly fine without any restraint system whatsoever.

I will clarify for you. Lap bars and OTRS are restraints built into the design of the coasters. Seat belts are not (I am not familiar with ever coaster in the world so please do not take this quote of context). In another thread there was a lot of discussion about the heartline of the Mantis and could it be converted. Coaster designers focus on the heartline of the rider when designing the ride and that is what makes for a smooth ride. Subtle movements of the rider, body size or posture and about a thousand other things affect the heartline. If you lean into a curve you feel this rather than if you don't lean into a curve. Because people are not inanimate we can slightly alter the course of our heartline throughout the ride which could be multiplied by other factors causing us to be thrown from a ride. Thus the need for a restraint. Also this is why an inanimate object could return to the station safely. Not all coasters follow these principals and this explanation may not cover every situation. But I hope it clarifies a little.

+1 Kevin. My thoughts exactly.

The PointGuru said:
Also this is why an inanimate object could return to the station safely. Not all coasters follow these principals and this explanation may not cover every situation.

Actually, zero coasters follow these "principals" and your explanation covers zero situations.

No object, animate or inanimate, will remain in the seat throughout a coaster ride without a restraint.

Well, no, not on Earth. But on whatever planet he's from, it sounds like a common occurrence.

Kevinj said:
They already offer a non-rider discount. It's activated by not purchasing a ticket.

Also, this. :)

Kevinj said:
They already offer a non-rider discount. It's activated by not purchasing a ticket...

Who monitors the "non-riders"? If a "non-rider" gets on a ride, are they kicked out of the park? Who watches these people? Are they electronically monitored?

Silly me, all along I thought the park wants to attract customers, not drive them away. Besides, how can the park monitor juniors and seniors to make sure to make sure they aren't riding rides they aren't supposed to ride. Next thing you know someone will want the park to invent some system that allows people to cut in line if they pay more money.

Who would have thought telling people not come to the park is actually good business or good customer service?

Well, because Senior discount is based on age, not what rides they can ride, and Junior discount is based on height. So, if they are short enough, they get the Junior discount, but can then only rides the rides for which they qualify.

You would think a Guru would already know this.

JuggaLotus said:

Actually, zero coasters follow these "principals" and your explanation covers zero situations.

No object, animate or inanimate, will remain in the seat throughout a coaster ride without a restraint.

Back to high school physics day field trip. Anyone who ever worked on Demon Drop knows the park would collect hundreds of dollars for charity each summer from the loose change found underneath the ride. Most of the change got there by falling out of peoples pockets when the ride flipped them on their backs. However, some of the money got there as a result of field trip assignments teachers gave students during the field trip. Students would place a coin in the palm of their hand before they dropped. As they dropped the coin would float about 6 inched off their hand as they fell. If the kids were coordinated enough they would catch coin as they flipped on their backs others would drop it. The purpose of the experiment was to show objects in motion stay in motion etc... Objects move / fall at the same speed etc...Those are all principals taken into consideration when designing rides. When students dropped the coins it wasn't because the coins were thrown from the ride. It was because kinetic energy from the car and the people inside the ride was being transfered to the ride structure and people by what we call G forces. The coin was not attached so it continued on its path making people drop the coin. I would not recommend it because the coin would be affected more by other forces, but you could try the same experiment on any coaster and the same principals apply.

... So says the laws of physics on earth.

We really need to stop feeding it.

The PointGuru said:
you could try the same experiment on any coaster and the same principals apply.

Except for the fact that on a coaster you're moving in a forward direction, whereas on DD you were just dropping down

davidw said:

Except for the fact that on a coaster you're moving in a forward direction, whereas on DD you were just dropping down

Ok, last physics lesson for the guy who didn't take physics in high school. Objects in motion stay in motion unless acted upon by another force. Does not matter what direction whether up, down, or sideways. Other forces include but are not limited to: gravity, air resistance, kinetic energy, friction etc... That is how coasters work like it or not.

I also hate it when I have to wait so long to get into the park because the admissions gate is busy carding so many seniors trying to getting a discount. It is way harder to tell if a woman is pregnant than to guess if they were 65 years old or not. If there was only some way to check the size of a person to see if they were too small (or too big) to ride and give them a discount price. I guess this is just too hard to figure out. Expecting workers to do their job or at least decent customer service is too much to ask.

Just because I didn't have to take physics in HS, doesn't mean I don't know about it. The issue with your argument is that the person being ejected would slow down much faster than the roller coaster; they would not have the same forces being applied to them.

davidw said:
... the person being ejected would slow down much faster than the roller coaster; they would not have the same forces being applied to them.

In your opinion. Fortunetly, I doubt that you design coasters for a living. Coaster designers know otherwise which is why they focus on the heartline of the rider and they have computer simulations which take many factors into consideration to make sure riders have a thrilling but safe ride. In your theory, coaster designers are intentionally designing coasters to injure people. In your scenario, any rider that was ejected far enough from a ride that they could be affected enough by other forces to slow down so much faster than the train would likely have been injured by the restraint tryng to keep them in the train. Think Magnum in 1-3. The lap bar hurts when you go over the airtime hills; but, not enough to break my legs, or ordinarily not enough to throw something so far into the air that the train speeds away from it in the few seconds air time. I also refer you to Blue Streak before the new restraints and optional seat belts. Just because you don't agree with or understand the laws of physics does not mean they are not true.

I'm done feeding this troll....

Pete said:
Millennium always had seat belts. Gemini, Magnum, Mine Ride - all of the Arrow coasters did not have seat belts when they opened. Though seat belts were installed on Magnum soon after opening day. Blue Streak also didn't have seat belts and even after they were installed they were optional for many years.

From reading other post, Pete is usually spot on with the stuff he post. Got to say he is a little off on this one. MF definitely did not have seat belts when it opened or maybe even the year after. Magnum went years with no seat belts.

Well, that is interesting about MF, I thought I always remembered seat belts on that ride, but after the Six Flags incidents they were shortened. Maybe my memory is off.

I disagree with you on Magnum though, it did open without seat belts, but seat belts were added shortly after opening. They were a different style seatbelt than what they have today, but they were added. I think it was a response to the strong airtime on that ride that may have been a little stronger than planned. They ride originally opened with upstop skids under the track like Gemini has, but with the strong airtime it was quickly realized that those were a mistake. The skids were replaced in season two with the upstop wheels we have now.

Maybe you ate thinking of Gemini, that ride DID run for many years without seat belts.

Yes, I seem to remember Magnum having black seat belts before the current ones; but, I know they were not on the ride for at least the first 2 years.

The PointGuru said:
Yes, I seem to remember Magnum having black seat belts before the current ones; but, I know they were not on the ride for at least the first 2 years.

Magnum's belts were added for the 2nd season. They were cheap plastic snaps that are used on camera bags and did not last long. They were eventually replace with actual seatbelts. I don't recall what year they switched to the orange belts.

JuggaLotus said:

The PointGuru said:
Also this is why an inanimate object could return to the station safely. Not all coasters follow these principals and this explanation may not cover every situation.

Actually, zero coasters follow these "principals" and your explanation covers zero situations.

I am not taking sides here. But there are family coasters out there that could be ridden safely without any restraints.

Nickelodeon Streak (formally Roller Coaster) at Blackpool Pleasure Beach used to have trains with no lapbars or seatbelts. It was a fun ride.

Let's not forget Jumbo Jet. Inline seating like a log ride and no restraints. The rides strong positive Gs, with absolutely no airtime, kept riders firmly in their seats without the need for restraints.

That's what I get for speaking in absolutes. I wasn't really counting kid coasters which are designed to minimize forces and Jumbo Jet is a bit before my time. But good points. Thanks.