Seat belt lenght

Gplez90 said:
Personally, i dont feel bad for people who cant fit in the seats. In many ways its their own fault. Eat the right food, workout on a regular and you should have no problems.

Some people can't control this...personally I don't feel bad for people with attitudes like you...sorry, but it's true...some people are just built that way, like my friend in Bama, he's not fat just a big person. So watch what you say....

JW Addington said:
^ What if a child is in row 4, aka the big boy seats? Are they "less safe" sitting in those seats?

I would guess they'd just less comfortable. With a seat that accommodates larger people, smaller people will probably be tossed around in the seat a bit.

It is frustrating to see so many people trying to defend the park for its bad policies and poor customer service. Seat belts have absolutely nothing to do with the safety of the rides or manufacturer recommendations. They are not a secondary safety system. Maybe they would be if all of the coasters had seat belts like the kiddie rides if a ride operator had to unlock the belt with a key. You could argue that it is a voluntary safety system, but it can not be considered a mandatory safety system if the guest can disable it by pushing a button as soon as the train moves out of the station.

To say it is someones fault they cannot ride because they are too fat is really just ignorant. I have seen a man not fit on a ride because he was clearly a body builder who didn't have an ounce of fat on him. I can ride everything except WT. I have a longer torso, the hinge on the restraint is slightly below my shoulders. The restraint locks but the seat belt is about an inch from fastening. I have the same problem on Corkscrew; but, I can ride. The restraint looks funny because the bottom points towards the front the train at about a 45 degree angle and it was that way before they even put belts on the rides. Seat belts are designed to be adjustable. Amazingly, every auto manufacturer has somehow managed to find a way to make seat belts that fit all sizes and body types of people.

The problem is not just with the coasters. I saw a family (who where heavy) be unable to ride Scrambler. They fit in the car but couldn't fasten the belt. I don't go to a lot of parks but have been to a few. I have never seen another park or even county fair that had seat belts on their Scramblers. Cadillac, Antique, and Turnpike Cars all managed to operate for decades without seat belts without anyone being thrown from the car to their death. I somehow doubt the manufacturer of these rides suddenly told the park they better put seat belts on these rides. Other post have already documented their are different length belts on the same ride. Some are weathered and worn and replaced with belts of different lengths. The real problem is managements lack of concern for guest satisfaction and poor customer service. They could easily install longer belts to accomadate more guest of "exceptional size", they just don't want to be bothered with it.

It is equally frustrating seeing people trying to lay blame at the feet of the park without any knowledge about the safety systems or how lap bars and seatbelts are used by different manufacturers.

Secondly, seatbelts on cars serve a much different purpose than seatbelts on coasters. All car seatbelts are meant to function the same way. Not all amusement rides use seatbelts the same way.

You don't have to be a mechanical engineer to understand how lap bars and seat belts are used for different rides or manufacturers. What is slightly harder to understand are legal liabilities, insurance coverage, and cost benefit analysis of customer satisfaction vs. operational cost. Seat belts on coasters serve absolutely no purpose for the functionality of even safety of the ride. They are purely cosmetic. Plus they give some guest a warm fuzzy feeling that they will be protected if the train flies of the track at 70 MPH. If you don't believe me, you can ask any coaster designer or mechanical engineer you want. The seat belts on the parks rides are the cheapest design available. Physics of coasters have not changed thoughout the years. Most coasters in the park never had seat belts until recent years. What has changed over the years is opinions on legal liabilities, insurance coverages and rates. The park simply has chosen to pay less for insurance liability by installing cheap seat belts on rides that have no need for them. By doing so they cut corners and sacrificed customer satisfaction for a small group of consumers. I don't blame them for making a business decision. It would just be nice if they made sure the belts were long enough or allowed for a little flexibility.

I have seen bodybuilders not fit on the coasters that have OTSR such as WT but I have a few friends that are pretty big muscle wise including legs and they had no trouble on MF or TTD. Everyone I have seen that was turned away might not have been morbidly obese but they were by no means in any decent shape. And I am including both women and men. I am not sure I believe the people in great shape couldnt fit unless they were 6'6 or something to that nature.

I dont blame the park at all sorry. I dont see how the park can be blamed for people being to big for certain ride. Just my opinion.

I don't think anyone has warm fuzzy feelings that a seatbelt is going to protect them if the train flies off the track at 70mph.

Again - not true.

On Raptor, Wicked Twister, Maverick, Mantis and Corkscrew, the belt operates as a secondary restraint to hold the shoulder harness down in the event the ratcheting system fails.

On Magnum and Gemini, the belt is the primary restraint.

On TTD and Millennium it functions as a go/no go measurement for the lap bar per manufacturer requirement.

They serve a purpose and are not purely cosmetic.

This discussion reminds me of a quote by former OSU football coach John Cooper who once said "Everybody always wants to gamble, but the want to do it with my chips."

JuggaLotus said:

On Raptor, Wicked Twister, Maverick, Mantis and Corkscrew, the belt operates as a secondary restraint to hold the shoulder harness down in the event the ratcheting system fails.

On Magnum and Gemini, the belt is the primary restraint.

On TTD and Millennium it functions as a go/no go measurement for the lap bar per manufacturer requirement.

Again, a seat belt is not a secondary safety system if someone can simply push a button to disable the system. Since Magnum and Gemini never had seat belts when they were built or for years later, I guess they must not have had any primary safety system at all. Other post already confirmed belts are different lengths on TTD and MF. You may have a different opinion, I still don't understand the need to defend poor customer relations and to post information that is easily proven false. It's your opinion and I appreciate that.

It's not Cedar Point that decides the seat belt laws, it's the State of Ohio. Call them.

Again, a seat belt is not a secondary safety system if someone can simply push a button to disable the system.

Continuing to repeat a fallacy doesn't make it any more true.

And the belts on MF and TTD may be different lengths. That doesn't change the stated purpose of the belts from the manufacturer. Whether they are effective in that role or not doesn't change that per manufacturer direction they are used as a go/no-go gauge for the lapbar.

Jayme Criscione said:
It's not Cedar Point that decides the seat belt laws, it's the State of Ohio. Call them.

I have, there is no such law that requires seat belts on rides. That is why rides at fairs or other places don't require them. You may be referring to the law that requires guest to follow ride instructions, which would include fastening a seat belt.

JuggaLotus said:

Continuing to repeat a fallacy doesn't make it any more true.

By the way, MF never had seat belts for the first few years after it was built. Guess they never had any "go's" for the lap bar. Seems some people still rode it.

From what I have seen in other B&M coasters with "big boy seats", the seat has two seat belts instead of one, also the placement of these seat belts let the over the shoulder restraint open up a little bit wider when properly latched. The seats themselves didn't feel any bigger than the normal ones. This was on a B&M Invert, so the system might be slightly different for their Wing coasters.

JuggaLotus said:
Again - not true.

On Raptor, Wicked Twister, Maverick, Mantis and Corkscrew, the belt operates as a secondary restraint to hold the shoulder harness down in the event the ratcheting system fails.

On Magnum and Gemini, the belt is the primary restraint.

On TTD and Millennium it functions as a go/no go measurement for the lap bar per manufacturer requirement.

They serve a purpose and are not purely cosmetic.

Not true, Gemini never had belts until recently. Gemini only ha a lap bar for many, many, many years so this IS secondary safety device....

The PointGuru said:

By the way, MF never had seat belts for the first few years after it was built. Guess they never had any "go's" for the lap bar. Seems some people still rode it.

It wasn't used as such until after SFDL launched a rider out of the train and Intamin changed the operating practices. Which is what has brought us to this whole belt length issue.

The PointGuru said:
...I still don't understand the need to defend poor customer relations...

What's so hard to understand? Rides cannot safely secure riders of all shapes and sizes. Some people cannot safely ride.

That you don't agree with the park's method for ensuring safety doesn't mean they're wrong.

Yes, legal liabilities and insurance. Nothing to do with safety. Bad customer service / relations cannot be disguised as a feable attempt ensure safety issues. It is purely nothing more bad policy and bad management. As stated before, they could make it safe for many more guest, they just make the business decision not to.

So back to my original question.....does anyone know the approximate length of the seat belts on TTD and MF? Going with the shorter end since it sounds like there are varying lenghts.