Relations with Intamin

RaptorQueen, either you have the manual memorized or you have your own copy.

I thought we were suposed to turn those in?;)...hehe

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Screamsters 2001
Millennium Force/Screamsters 2002
Challenge Park/Screamsters 2003

I have the original manual from 1994, in the manual it doesn't give specifics about wind speed. This was prior to our first rollback.

I was strictly commenting about the statement "after their 10th year they begin experiencing major problems". That's a very tricky, questionable statement. There are many B&M's out there hitting that age, and we're not seeing floods of reports of problems caused by this mystical 10 year barrier.

Yes, basic park upkeep is very important. Look how much Knight Flight at Worlds of Adventure has already gone downhill -- that's FAR less than 10 years old. Sure, as rides age, they'll require more babying. But I don't believe there's something magic about B&M's approaching and passing their 10th anniversary.

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--Greg
My Home
MF count: 69 TTD: 9

SFWOA needs to take care of their rides. Look how rough poor Villain got in just a few years. Not all coasters break down or screw up at the same age.

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Millennium Force is MY baby.
Where would we be without CP?:)

Anybody who can name a B&M coaster that was plagued with problems that prevented it from running for large amounts of time when it opened raise your hand.

What? That's what I thought. No hands.

All of the B&M rides I have seen and ridden are amazing machines. They're reliable and age decently well (as opposed to many older Arrow rides and even some of the new Intamins). Any problems I've seen on any B&M I've ridden have obviously been from maintanance issues- such as B:KF at SFWoA and it's wonderful trains. Those things shuffle more than a Vegas Blackjack dealer.

So, those of you who are saying that B&Ms go to the crapper after x number of years... what are you smoking and what rides are you talking about?
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- John
I Snap Flyers

*raises hand*

Batman: The Ride at SF Great Adventure had a ton of problems it's opening year. ;)

Opening day was hell.. I remember it well.

AIR at Alton Towers was a one train nightmare when it started if I remember my sources.

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June 11th, 2001 - Gemini 100
VertiGo Rides - 82

Michael, what Intamins are you reffering too when you said, All of the B&M rides I have seen and ridden are amazing machines. They're reliable and age decently well (as opposed to many older Arrow rides and even some of the new Intamins).

I agree Arrow does not age well, but the new Intamins seem to do quite well. RoS at SFNE was running better this year (2003) than the year it opened. I know about the stress cracks and mechanical issues, but from my point of view, they (Intamin) seem to age as well as B&M.

Tom

I rode Iron Wolf (B&M) at SFGAm, and it was quite rough and painful. Maybe because it's old or maybe because it's at a six flags, I don't know. It was just not fun, in my opinion.

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Millennium Force is MY baby.
Where would we be without CP?:)

I read somewhere about Scream! at SFMM having problems opening day. AIR was a prototype and Batman was too, I think. Prototypes will have problems no matter what. There isn't a coaster in the world that doesn't have problems. Nothing is perfect, including B&M coasters. If the ride is maintained well then it should run well.

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Two best speils before launching:
Keep Arms Down, Head Back, and Hold On!!
Clear, Launching in 3...2...1 :)

Ok guys, I can understand you saying that Arrow coasters may have some problems as they age, but I really don't see that to be the case at CP. Am I missing something or has Magnum and Gemini been performing ok since their construction?? What have been major flaws/repairs??

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"Welcome back Gemini riders, how was that ride!?!?!" 25 years of excellence!

Magnum had more than a few problems its opening year and then over the next five years had significant track work done on the third hill. 89 was my first year at the point, and Gemini has been consistent the entire time IMO. Magnum is not as good as it was that opening year, it was significantly smoother in those early years. Of all the Arrows I have riden, Magnum and Gemini are the best, which is probably a testament to CP maintanace.

Tom

Tom said:
Michael, what Intamins are you reffering

Specifically? Millennium Force and Wicked Twister.

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- John
I Snap Flyers

Oh come on! Most of us expect problems with new ride concepts and prototypes, why wouldnt we expect similar mechanical engineering problems with very unique designs like MF and WT. I thought you were reffering to the aging of Intamin rides and their relability, and IMO Intamin rides are aging VERY well. RoS at SFNE was flying all year, and IMO was running better than the year it opened. MF, Volcano, and WT also seem very consistent each year I ride them.

Tom

MF may have been sort of a prototype, but there were lots of impulse coasters before WT.

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Millennium Force is MY baby.
Where would we be without CP?:)

*** This post was edited by MF310 12/31/2003 1:33:49 PM ***

There certainly were other impulse coasters before Wicked Twister, but I'm not sure if I count 5 as "lots" (for those counting at home, Linear Gale (1998), Superman Ultimate Escape (2000), Screaming Condor (2001), SFGAm's V2 (2001), SFMW's V2 (2001, modified 2002). Oh, and Volcano also opened in 1998, that uses pretty much the same launch mechanism -- it doesn't have to time launching backwards, but DOES have to time a second launch on a moving train...

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--Greg
My Home
MF count: 69 TTD: 9

Wicked Twister goes higher, faster, and has a support structure that no other impulse has. I think the big problem with WT was the structure. MF's cable lift is what makes it a prototype.

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Two best speils before launching:
Keep Arms Down, Head Back, and Hold On!!
Clear, Launching in 3...2...1 :)

Top Thrill Dragster was a prototype

And I don't think there will be another one. ;)

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Millennium Force is MY baby.
Where would we be without CP?:)

*** This post was edited by MF310 12/31/2003 8:10:42 PM ***

Most of Wicket Twister's problems were caused by extremely complicated vibrations. The most famous example of what vibrations can do is "Galloping Gertie." The support structure for Wicked Twister is actually sturdier for it's height than previous impulses.

Resonate frequency is the key factor. It causes the most effect to a structure for the kinetic energy used. Every material has at least one, sometimes many complex structures such at WT's track has even more. An example of resonance is a tall freestanding flag poll. If you try to swing it at too slow or too fast of a frequency, then you add energy to the pole for a certain periods and fight against the pole for others. At the right frequency you stop fighting against the pole and work with it going back and forth building amplitude each time. It's easy to get the poll swinging quite drastically, much more so than WT does. Swinging WT's track or a flagpole isn't going to do damage.

There are other resonate frequencies that can damage materials such as glass or steel. Freestanding structures exhibit the most damage from vibrations. Vertigo, smoke stacks, and other structures of the like get affected by wind by vortex shredding. This is a resonate frequency caused by the air moving around an object forming eddy currents downstream, which backlash on the object at a particular frequency varied by the wind speed. A specific set of variables and the fact that vertigo was in winter storage which means less no maintenance inspections until before the season starts when it's taken out of storage. Wicked
Twister's vibration is caused mostly by the trains. The trains cause many vibrations a different frequency which changes with differences in velocity, supporting, and other smaller factors. The support structure including the track can dampen or transmit vibrations. Calculating the variations of vibrations and their effect can only be done partially even using computers to do the massive amounts of calculations. The results help, but until the structure is complete, its unknown how well the structure will hold up. These problems cannot be isolated to a specific roller coaster company such as Intamin or even thrill rides in general. Realize it or not, these problems affect most if not all areas of structural engineering.

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Eddy the retard is awesome.

Dan Kilbane said:
Top Thrill Dragster was a prototype

No it wasn't. It's the same damn ride as Xcelerator only bigger!

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