Raw Efficiency

Am I missing something? Were the rides at Cedar Point more dangerous back in the 90s when the average dispatch was half as long?

The rides may not be more dangerous, the patrons are way more distracted than ever. We have more and more people that don't ever pay attention to what's in front of them, let alone instructions for riding a roller coaster.

So to combat that, the park makes sure its ride hosts are being more safe than their riders, dispatch times be damned.

They should bring back the 90s dispatch times and, if possible Blue Streak's old restraints. Surely it's possible to safely operate. Knoebels does it. They literally only added air gates in 2016, and they still operate Phoenix how it was designed - with buzz bars and bench seats. Just like how Blue Streak was designed. And the ride has a perfect safety record as far as I can tell.

Not to mention Europa-Park does it on modern rides. With bins.

Hell, even Magic Mountain, whose operations are almost invariably inferior to CP's, tries to motivate people. (Twisted Colossus "If you want to race, you must be in your seat within 30 seconds...") Why can't we just do that on every ride? Announce over loud speakers before entering the station, "To keep the line moving, please secure all loose articles before boarding and quickly enter your seat..." or something like that.

I was amazed at WDW. Get in and sit down, quick restraint check, and see ya. Loose articles? Put them on the floor or the handy dandy mesh bag. No spiel. No triple seatbelt checks and releasing and re-releasing the restraints.

WDW has significantly less intense rides, though. I would argue that process is not possible on rides like Maverick.

^Rock n' Roller Coaster is pretty intense. How's its loading?

What about Disney California? How is loading on CA Screamin'? I've heard 36 seconds from RCDB.

Wikipedia says that Rock 'n Roller Coaster runs 4 trains at a time, on a course that's about 20 seconds longer than Flight of Fear at Kings Island/Dominion. (However, since RNRR's launch is separate from its load station (thus creating an extra block), I think we can say that having 4 trains on RNRR is somewhat similar to historical 3 train operations on FOF.) From prior experience, I would say that loading times on RNRR and CA Screamin' are pretty similar (with RNRR being just a couple seconds quicker), so the dispatches are fairly quick for both coasters. The major things that improve capacity for RNRR include the facts that there's a separate unload, the restraints are open when the train pulls into the load, and there's no harness seatbelt that needs to be checked. Therefore, operations are going to be considerably faster than a ride that lacks these capacity improvements, such as Corkscrew.

On the issue of efficiency, we must also remember that some rides have changed over the years in such a way that the maximum efficiency is now reduced from previous maximum amounts. One obvious example is Blue Streak's addition of individual lap bars and seat belts, but there are other changes which are more subtle. Two subtle changes that come to mind are a result of changes in the ride's procedures and programming, namely Millennium Force and Maverick. On Millennium Force, I've heard that in the past, the optimal dispatch time was when the preceding train had hit the small "speed bump" hill as it passed the station. However, nowadays trains are only dispatched once the preceding train has hit the first set of the final brakes, likely to both prevent a train hold at the top of the lift hill and to make sure that the preceding train has completed the final overbanked turn; that's only a 10 second delay in dispatch time, but the seconds do add up, and since there's a brief stack-up that usually results from this dispatch delay, efficiency is reduced as a result. Maverick has had a similar change with regard to the programming of the second train's dispatch; previously, the second train entered the lift when the first train had entered the tunnel's first set of brakes. Nowadays, the second train only enters the lift launch once the first train has begun the tunnel's high-speed launch, likely due to safety/rollback considerations. While safety is always paramount (and the delay may seem small), this delay not only causes the awesome near-misses and the dueling aspect of Maverick's track layout to both go unused, but again it reduces the efficiency of the ride since it pushes back the earliest possible dispatch time for the station train pair. (Of course, the station train pair isn't always ready to be dispatched at the first get-go, but from a pure efficiency standpoint, this is irrelevant.) All in all, while the ride crews are fantastic at keeping the capacity of the rides as high as possible (seriously--I commend them for the outstanding work that they do), when procedure and programming changes impact the efficiency, there's only so much that the ride crew can do for the maximum capacity, and at that point it's less of a ride operations issue and more of an issue with the ride itself.

^Maverick still sometimes duels. It happens more often during ride nights and when the ride is warmed up. During ride nights/ERT, I feel like 2 things happen:

• Coaster enthusiasts know what they're doing, so the trains load very quickly
• Coaster enthusiasts would not hate the park in the small chance of a mistiming causing a rollback/reset (although it would put a huge damper on the ERT), so perhaps the ride is cleared for dispatch as soon as safely possible rather than the larger buffer time in general operation.

Question - At which point can a Maverick train clear the launch lift? Is it after the tunnel train has cleared the hill over the pond (for rollback safety) or are there 2 block brakes in the tunnel (a "brake" and a "pre-launch brake" that would allow 2 trains in the tunnel at once in an emergency)? AKA.... if a train was stopped before the LSMs (say, after a rollback), is there another block section that would permit the next train to stop?

As for MF, you'd think it would be simpler to reprogram the lift motor to start slower than it already does. It might increase the circuit time by a few seconds, but it would add up less than almost always "stacking." Or is the lift motor already mechanically as slow as it can go at the start?

I think you suggested that they treat the launching procedures different for an enthusiast heavy event, I would find that peculiar. As safety is safety, if they operated differently under subset A as under subset B and an accident happened it would be a big issue.

One area under efficiency they do have control over is adding a train to the course while under normal operation. This happens often on Gatekeeper during early entry. I am wondering if anyone knows why they would wait to add third train until early entry has started, and subsequently eats up a good amount of limited early ride time.

^The issue at stake with Maverick timing is not safety. The issue is that if there is a blocking issue forcing the ride to have a reset, people will be annoyed.

^^ As for Gatekeeper, I experienced that delay for the addition of the third train a couple of times last year. Usually there aren't too many guests waiting when they do it, and it seems to be a fairly quick process. I recall it happening last October when the crews were nobody I recognized from earlier visits and they pulled it off in admirable fashion. I think there would be many more grumbling customers if they did it after the later customers arrive.

I would assume they have some rational reason for doing it the way they do it. Unlike some people, especially in this thread, I don't think the park does stuff just to slow stuff down and annoy people. I was just wondering if anybody knew the reason for adding the third train after early entry has already begun.

One time last season, they added the third train when it was only about 20 minutes until closing time and there was hardly any wait. I thought that was pointless and just created a slight annoying delay when it really wasn't necessary.

GigaG said:

Question - At which point can a Maverick train clear the launch lift? Is it after the tunnel train has cleared the hill over the pond (for rollback safety) or are there 2 block brakes in the tunnel (a "brake" and a "pre-launch brake" that would allow 2 trains in the tunnel at once in an emergency)? AKA.... if a train was stopped before the LSMs (say, after a rollback), is there another block section that would permit the next train to stop?

I imagine two trains could possibly be in the tunnel in a rollback situation, but the computer would likely prevent that from happening; in such a situation, the computer would realize that the first train hasn't cleared the launch and would cut the lift power, resulting in a lift rollback for the second train. With this in mind, I would say that there are two blocks within the tunnel: the first set right as you enter the tunnel (the original release point for the second train), and a set right before the launch section. I also remembered another change that may have to do with the issue of duel timing; when the ride originally opened, there was that little light and sound show in the tunnel, which meant that trains spent about 5 more seconds in the tunnel (from entrance to exit, 12.5 seconds vs. 7.5 seconds). Theoretically, this extra 5 seconds is what allowed the ride to duel better than it does today, mainly because it allows more time for the second train to start the lift, assuming the computer is using that very first set of brakes at the tunnel entrance as the release point. Of course, the light show may have caused a timing issue; in this sense, let's say that the first train takes a little too long to clear the tunnel. The computer would think that a rollback is occurring, and to prevent two trains from being in the tunnel, it would (unnecessarily) cut the second train's lift power. As a result, it is possible that the removal of the light show, while aesthetically unpleasing, was done to make the ride run smoother and prevent unnecessary shutdowns and delays, at the cost of the layout's signature dueling effect.

GigaG said:

As for MF, you'd think it would be simpler to reprogram the lift motor to start slower than it already does. It might increase the circuit time by a few seconds, but it would add up less than almost always "stacking." Or is the lift motor already mechanically as slow as it can go at the start?

I think the problem is that the lift hill's slow start is what made the speed bump the optimal dispatch point; that extra 10 seconds is likely what enabled the ride to get the train out of the load station fast enough to prevent a stack from occurring. However, I believe that this dispatch point can have timing issues because of two reasons. First, if the dispatched train reaches the top of the lift before the preceding train has cleared the final brakes, then the computer will hold that train at the top of the lift hill, causing possible stress on the lift cable/motor and causing the incredibly loud anti-rollbacks to kick in. Similarly, and more catastrophically, if the train reaches the top of the lift hill, but the preceding train has valleyed on the final overbanked turn (unlikely, but could conceivably happen), then the computer will realize the block conflict and hold the dispatched train on the lift hill indefinitely, requiring the crew to evacuate that train two riders at a time with the tiny motorized bucket. Later on, it was likely realized that these two possibilities can be prevented with using the final brakes as a dispatch point. That way, they make sure that the block will be clear to prevent a lift hill hold, and they also make sure that the preceding train has completed the circuit; if it doesn't, the evacuation can be done within the station, making such an issue far more manageable than if that train needed to be evacuated from the lift. However, this change in dispatch time has resulted in a frequent brief stack before the dispatched train has left the station, thus impacting the efficiency of the ride. They could conceivably speed up the lift start to prevent a stack, but that may introduce more possible mechanical problems than it's likely worth.

A train won't be held at the top of the lift hill. If something triggers a stop before the train crests the lift hill it would return to the bottom of the lift hill.

^^As for Maverick: Hmm... maybe if the computer is misinterpreting the situtation, the ride might end up getting its dueling and quicker dispatches back if its control system is replaced in the future.

That being said, if there's truly two blocks in the tunnel, if there's a tunnel rollback, or if the computer even thinks there's going to be a tunnel rollback and another train is coming, there should be absolutely no problem, as evacuating 24 people from the tunnel is little more difficult than evacuating 12 if the need be.

And if it's only a temporary "illusion" from the train hitting the LSMs too slowly, then the ride should eventually realize it hasn't rolled back and clear the block, even if it was prepared to stop the second dispatched train when it crested the lift. Why should it power down the lift LSMs? That's no different than a B&M dropping off the lift after the train ahead of it has cleared the MCBR but before it hits the final brakes. As long as nothing goes wrong, the second train will have cleared the final block and allow the next train to drop off the MCBR or launch in Maverick's case.

And if something does go wrong, including a tunnel rollback, there's provisions to stop the second dispatched train (AND the first dispatched train in the case of a rollback) in the tunnel. No block violation of any kind, smooth dueling, and quicker dispatches. Everybody wins! Or am I messing something up with this logic?

^^Thanks for the info, Pete. I've had some rides on MF where the lift slowed down and the anti-rollbacks kicked in (like they were about to hold the train at the top), but I guess they've thought of everything. Cool!

^Your logic sounds right, Giga, but we're getting into territory that's a lot less clear for my own understanding, so bear that in mind as we go along. In my mind, while the tunnel can likely hold two trains, it would be preferable for rider comfort/safety to not have this occur because of the sharp stop necessary for the second train to avoid collision with the first. (A similar example would be Magnum's stacking stop on the brake right after the final tunnel, but for Maverick the stop could be more violent considering the higher speed and the shorter brake section.) Therefore, considering that the lift power can be cut on command (for people with cameras and such), I think that in a rollback situation it would be preferable for the computer to cut the lift power and make the second train rollback with a slight delay than it is to let the second train go, have a violent stop at the tunnel, and risk a collision with the first train. (After all, safety is paramount.) Of course, all of this assumes that the original release point is used (when the first train has hit the first set of tunnel brakes), and I think that the release point was moved to a later point to prevent any of this from occurring. In fact, I almost feel like nowadays the system is able to detect the tunnel launch speed, and the second train is released to the lift only when the computer has decided that the first train will be able to complete the tunnel launch, so that none of these instances can ever happen.

It is possible for two trains to be in the tunnel. I'm not exactly sure how the scenario would arise, but it is definitely possible.

Oh, I'm sorry Bootymix, I thought you were talking about Maverick. My lift hill comments apply to Maverick, which has no anti-roll backs and is designed to come slowly down the lift hill if the lift hill is shut down. MF can stop you at the top of the lift hill.

No worries. A lift hill block delay has only happened to me once on MF, but having the lift slow down to a crawl 300ft in the air like that is definitely quite a different and more terrifying sort of scare if you ask me! It's also quite surprising to me how loud the anti-rollbacks are when they engage; in fact, there's been times during Early Entry when I've heard that ear-grating ratchet all the way over by Witches' Wheel and the Resort Gate. Crazy, but I guess that sound means they're doing their job!