Now what happens to Geauga Lake?

Haha...the people there seemed nice on the phone and they have WiFi for free.

The Koa seemed a little too expensive for what they offered.

Have any of you even been to Geauga Lake? Who said that it isn't profitable?

The park already is different because it has the best water park in Northern Ohio. Soak City can't touch it. It has lots of new shiny rides and pools, convenient facilities, and at the end of the day, ten roller coasters. Geauga Lake is a water park with lots to do when the sun sets. That's how it's different.

Granted, I ran into Bill Spehn this afternoon while I was there, so I might be buying into his cheerleading, but the "product" is first class. It's just a matter of getting the word out. If today is any indication, it's getting out quickly, and that's with most schools still in session.

Bill put it this way... "It's like when you build a house and it seems like a hopeless mess. Then you put the carpet down, and it all comes together." The "carpet" is the new bridge and the evolved water park. While I hate that there's a building there kind of blocking the way on the ride side, it really does change the dynamic of the park. There's a little clean up to deal with still with the old water park, but beyond that, the new package is quality stuff.

I think the only significant challenge Geauga Lake has is a marketing challenge. I'm not at all impressed with the campaign the new agency came up with.

It's interesting that I have seen more aggressive marketing for Kennywood this year than I have for Geauga Lake. I'm 35 minutes from GL and 2 hours from KW.

Now that I mention it, I haven't seen a single TV spot for GL this season...

-Josh

Loopy,

Not a bad place to stay, but very much in the open and close to US31, which can be noisy.

MrScott

Here in Columbus, Ohio Geauga Lake had the free parking coupon a couple weeks back. Kennywood has in this Sunday's paper a buy 1 get 1 free coupon for admission. Thought I would post to let people know.

e x i t english said:
Now that I mention it, I haven't seen a single TV spot for GL this season...

I think the ad campaigns just started in the last couple days. I hadn't seen anything, and in the last two or three days I've seen quite a few.

Thanks MrScott.

Jeff:

I agree 100% with what you said. Hence the combo pass I have this year.

I believe they should shut the monorail down until the old waterpark is cleaned up. There was a few pools of standing water over there that made me want to hurl. The set of slides that's fairly new should be moved asap and just bulldoze the rest.

I'd rather look at dirt than what's there now.

Chadley said:
I personally would rather visit GL any day over PKI. But I'm biased in that PKI is my homepark and I'm just sick of it anymore. IMO, CP has got a lot of work ahead of them, but if anybody can handle it, CP can.

I live about 20 minutes from PKI, but it is my #3 park in Ohio, behind CP and GL, respectively. Why? The coaster and ride selection at Geauga Lake impresses me a little more. Geauga has a B&M Floorless, a monorail, and a classic woodie with good airtime. I also like seeing lots of food stands open throughout GL. I'll go around PKI and see several large food places closed, even when the park is very busy.

Wildwater Kingdom, having done it Saturday for about an hour, is possibly the best waterpark in Ohio now. Lots of color, custom-made rock design, an impressive slide tower complex, and a wavepool that is warm and allows tubes make it nicer than Boomerang Bay - not to mention individual changing stalls, rather than a communal room for the guys.

I see it much more likely that Kings Island will get a new coaster by 2010, rather than Geauga Lake, simply when you compare their size and attendance - and in my opinion - the "selection" - the large steel that guests - enthusiasts or not- want to see KI get.

What do I see next at the Lake? Hurricane Hanna's should obviously be redeveloped. Maybe a kids/family area that would rival PKI's Nick Universe or CP's Camp Snoopy. A few more slides at Wildwater Kingdom. By the time 2010 has passed, and the peeps are coming in bigger numbers, another notable coaster will be on the way.

One idea to boost the attendance: free parking. Kennywood has it, and we know how they are competing with Geauga Lake. Also, factor in that shopping center across the street - while signs prohibit GL parking there, moving the parking fee into admission or dropping it would be something to market to all.

This is my concern with Geauga Lake:

I think that in general we are placing too much blame on Six Flags for the state of this park. I totally agree with the horrible state the park was in as far as operations go: the midways, the ride maint. the employees, etc. And Cedar Fair has made great strides in this department. However, if one looks at attendance records- they will see there is more to this story than given credit.

The park drew in 2.8 million visitors in 2001 when the two parks combined, and in two years that number dropped to 1.7 million visitors in 2003 *numbers are from Amuemsent Business*

Cedar Fair's initial expected attendance goal in 2004 *inagural year* was 1.5 million visitors *taken from March 10th press release* (they believed that the illimination of the wildlife property would reduce the attendance by 200,000 people.)

I always remember the park filled with people in the waterpark and on the wildlife side. The killerwhale show in 2003 was always filled with people, and often times there was standing room only to see Shouka the whale. The rides side was always the area that had the least amount of people.

I know after Cedar Fair announced they were retiring the marinelife concept at the Aurora park, that many people lost interest (Myself included). The clear point is this- for awesome rides we go to Cedar Point, for a nice hometown park appeal we go to Kennywood, and for a nice waterpark we can go to any amusement park or local pool. The Sea World property was always the main draw to the Aurora facility because it was unique. Many visitors to the old Geauga Lake visited because of the adjacent marine park.

Visit any of the old fansites of the park and you will find very few users/poster etc.- even the die-hard enthusiasts of the place aren't interested anymore (you'll see that by how many people will most likely respond to this post). There isn't an excitement like there was with the old wildlife park!

Cedar Fair's card of "We have no experience running animal parks" is weak at best. The old Sea World people were still in place ready and willing to do what they used to do, but were at the mercy of the Six Flags team. And the argument of a marine park not working in this area of the country is also weak- look at Marineland in Canada. The park will not become profitable until it can do something that no other park can do. Geauga Lake (IMO) would've died years ago if it wasn't for the huge draw that Sea World had on the area. Its really a shame that two awesome parks (Sea World and old Geauga) had to die like this. I for one really miss those old Sea World memories!

So I go back to the old numbers thing- 700,000 people, attendance dropped by 1 million people in ONE YEAR, this cannot be solely blamed on Six Flags, this is, and continues to be based on the fact that people came for the animals- not a waterpark, and certainly not for the Raging Wolf Bobs.

What would I do? What needs to be done? (Well that's an easy question for a person who has no experience running a business)

But if I was at the board meeting deciding what to do next- this is what I would tell the Cedar Fair execs...

I would design an aquariam (similar to the one in Chicago and in Myrtle Beach- and just recently one opened in Antlanta and has apparantly been drawing huge crowds away from SF:OG) This aquariam could obviously be opened year round because it would be "downsizing" the former marinelife park idea and putting it under one roof. You could have giftshops, food stands, a huge fish aquariam, a shark encounter with moving conveyor belt, and a decent sized stadium that could have a dolphin show *maybe even a killerwhale down the road!*

This could be built on the former waterpark, and would be very very marketable. It taps into an entirely different market of people who aren't interested in Cedar Point or a waterpark. Would it cost a lot? of course. Would it be a hard task finding the right professionals to run such a facility? sure. but time, energy, and money are a crucial part to turning this park around. Not destroying a Cleveland classin, building a nice waterpark and expecting a huge return.

Will Cedar Fair do it- probably not, they're more into light-ended investments than into multi-million dollar projects (then again it has worked for them) I guess I'm done.

Don't count GL out just yet. They just completed WWK and I have a feeling that they will only add more slides and stuff in the coming years. They have all the space that the old waterpark took up too. I highly doubt that Cedar Fair would spend $145 million + on a park only to ditch it within 5-10 years that would be just plain stupid.

While I have absolutely no real knowledge of running a zoo/aquarium, it seems that ridding themselves of the expense of running it might have been worth losing 200,000 guests.

Whirl,

I enjoyed reading your post but I have some disagreements.

There wasn't going to be much left of the animal park when Six Flags took the whales, dolphins and some other species. An aquarium and some sea lions would not be the draw. The whales and dolphins to a marine park is like the coasters to an amusement park.

There would have been considerable cost and red tape to getting replacement animals and the bottom line is that Cedar Fair's core buisness is rides, not animals. Many companies are starting to reign themselves in and concentrate on their core businesses. Heck, that is why Paramount offloaded the parks.

Premier Parks (as Six Flags) brutalized their customers. The park wasn't clean, the service was bad and the word got out. Cedar Fair did make a few mistakes initially after the purchase. Mostly they were PR errors such as telling kids who read a lot of books that their free pass would not be honored (only to reverse the decision weeks later when the damage had been done) was one of those mistakes.

But, let's be honest. To completely change the direction of that park, reinvest in a new waterpark, take care of the infrastructure, etc, was not expected to be a one year turnaround. Plus, they had to change what amounted to a defeatist attitude amongst the staff. Again, not a quick fix.

I agree. Sea World was great and I miss it too. But, they are the experts in the business and not too many others succeed as they do. Marine World in Niagara Falls is not a great example of success. They get by, sure, but I wouldn't call it a huge success.

I fully expect Geauga Lake to return to its glory. In fact, it sounds like it is already heading that way. I have no doubt that Bill Spehn has his heart in the right place and is making the changes that need to be made. As a Cedar Fair shareholder I am not concerned right now.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:
The park drew in 2.8 million visitors in 2001 when the two parks combined, and in two years that number dropped to 1.7 million visitors in 2003 *numbers are from Amuemsent Business*

AB was wrong by several hundred thousand, as indicated in one of the early conference calls on the acquisition.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:
So I go back to the old numbers thing- 700,000 people, attendance dropped by 1 million people in ONE YEAR, this cannot be solely blamed on Six Flags, this is, and continues to be based on the fact that people came for the animals- not a waterpark, and certainly not for the Raging Wolf Bobs.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. If the animal park was a good business, then the people who are best at it, Anheuser-Busch, would never have sold the park in the first place. It was a losing proposition, to the point where Busch started counting a one-day admission as free pass to come back any day during the year. You don't do that out of the goodness of your heart, you do it to get butts in the park spending money.

People do go to GL for the water park. There isn't anything even close to it in the area. Cedar Fair is an expert at running successful water park operations. They know the business. The challenge at this point is getting the word out, and "What a Surprise" isn't going to do that because it doesn't create an emotional response or even sell the new park and ownership. If the growing crowds are any indication this week, they are well on their way.

It's time to let go of the animal thing. It might have given people warm fuzzies, but it wasn't a good business to be in. Busch knew this, Six Flags tanked it worse, and Cedar Fair was smart enough to not even go there. The awesome water park, with rides and coasters after sunset, is a much better business. Time will show this to be true.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. If the animal park was a good business, then the people who are best at it, Anheuser-Busch, would never have sold the park in the first place.

Jeff- How is that wrong wrong wrong? Whether or not the business was good isn't the point- the fact of the matter is that they were pulling a lot bigger numbers than Geauga is doing now, maybe not the numbers they wanted to see, but a big market of people were interested. I'm sure that if Busch would've been allowed to build coasters, numbers would've been good. And I believe Six Flags apporached Sea World, the park wasn't for sale until Six Flags made an offer... if only Busch would have approached Six Flags....

Apparently, the number of people they were attracting wasn't enough to pay for the operations of the animal part of the park.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:
Whether or not the business was good isn't the point...

It's not? Are businesses not intended to make money? Sea World was on an attendance slide for years. Six Flags just accelerated it. No one, not even Cedar Fair, expected Geauga Lake to start pulling in huge numbers when they totally changed the product.

Let's face it, this is the year things need to pick up, because this is the year that the product has a very focused direction. I think the marketing isn't particularly good, but the park has finally evolved into what it needs to be to grow.

Clearly, A-B wasn't getting the attendance they wanted with the animals. If they couldn't do it nobody else can. So animals are off the table. And admittedly WWK is a terrific waterpark, and right now waterparks are the 'in' thing. But GL is not going to bring in 2.5 million, or even 1.5 million, on the strength of its lazy river.

I sincerely hope we've reached the bottom of the curve for attendance and are either flattening or rebounding. But I'm not all that sanguine. GL needs to redefine itself, and as something more than a glorified Dover Lake (for those of you not in NE Ohio, a waterpark between Cleveland and Akron that just closed its doors this year). It needs marquee rides, a proper investment in classic amusement park attractions, and extensive marketing. And especially in GL's case, attractions that differentiate it from CP, Kennywood, and to a lesser extent PKI.

Again, if anybody can pull this off it's Cedar Fair. If. Anybody. Can.

Well, they have marquee rides, in my opinion. They are differentiated from CP in that the waterpark is included in admission.

I think they ARE redefining themselves. They are marketing themselves as the blue collar park that GL was known for decades before Six Flags swooped in.

Frankly, if they put in a good Master Blaster and Flow Rider I think things would really move forward to their satisfaction.

Wahoo is right... and all of those things have happened. The package is there, today, ready for the attention. Those who are hoping for its own Millennium Force will be sorely disappointed. It's not ever going to happen.

A million and a half is totally feasible, and likely if you ask me. Good discounting programs, big group outings and a strong Oktoberfest should get them there.

My, how I am looking forward to Oktoberfest this year :)