News: Local businesses brace for $3-a-gallon gasoline

That's only cause she wants to get reelected, isn't as popular as she would like, and wants more votes.

2006, the year we get the Canadian trash out of Lansing!!

word!

Today the Sec. of Energy said that the oil companies claims that an ethanol shortage were bogus and that there is more than enough ethanol to go around.

He also tried to reassure that gas prices should be lower by summer, but I'll believe that when I see it.

Is the secretary of energy still Engler?

I don't think it was ever Engler. Spence Abraham had the position after he lost his senate seat, but now it's Bodawer. Don't know who he is.

Don't even get me started.

MrScott

Dont get me started neither,im mad enough as it is,totally rediculous gas prices,thank god i have a 4-cylinder car

Coastern3rd said:
here is a healthy article for you to read, and its not just in production, it is over the total life of the vehicle. Read the full context of my argument and not just pieces of it.

You're quoting a press release from a marketing research company that doesn't have any science, just a metric that is completely made up. Get some real data.

Despite the nonsense that the Dems are spewing right now at Bush, he can't do anything about the problem. It's a complex problem that involves our culture, our economy and market forces.

And remember that the oil reserve is for use when there's an actual shortage. There is no shortage.

Heard spectulators today on the news predicting at the current pace, gas could be $4 to $5 by this July. Isn't that wonderful? Like I said earlier, the more people spectulate, the more oil companies will keep racking in the profits.

If this does occur, my CP trips will be cut in half.

Coastern3rd said:

FACT: Hybrids, while they are a step in the right direction are worse for the environment. This is mostly due to the fact that they use more fuel to be produced, and then burn straight gasoline. What this means: A Toyota Prius will use more fuel in it's lifetime then a 2007 Chevrolet Tahoe in its lifetime.

First, the keyword in that study is energy, as energy is different than petrol fuel. The fact remains the hybrids burn much less petrol fuel than SUV’s. Other forms of energy, say from nuclear plants and clean burning coal have a much different effect on the environment than petrol fuel. So just because the current energy cost of a hybrid is higher doesn't mean it's bad for the enviroment. It's all a mater of what kind of energy that are expending.

As for the high cost, that “study” doesn’t take in to affect the fact that hybrids are a new product that requires ton “energy” for little output at the current moment. All that “energy” put into building new R&D, production processes, engineering, etc will be absorbed by future mass production. Post production “energy” is also large at the moment because replacement parts and disposal of batteries are not handled in mass quantities yet. The reason why the established SUV like a Hummer energy is so low is all the R&D, production processes, and post production support are already there and they pump out a high number of vehicles.

Case in point- According to the study The MayBach was the most energy consuming vehicle. There is the same if not more (likely more because each car is pretty much custom) R&D and production energy put into that vehicle than your typical auto. For a replacement parts to be made for these vehicles they pretty much have to produce a custom part which would result in more “energy” needed compared mass produced parts. Divide that by the fact production levels are limited to a handful of those vehicles and you get that ridiculous number. Same applies to hybrids.

This idea of high energy cost of hybrids compared to low cost of a SUV directly relates to the economies of scale as Rideman mentioned. That fact that these idiots who did this study failed to even recognize or mention this proves how credible it is. Lastly the study is just a PR release not actual news. Any responsible news reporter (well are there any of those left? ;)) would have gone to Toyota or Honda to ask why the cost of hybrids is so high, and they would give you the same answer as I just did.

A similar amount of energy will have to go into any alternate like hydrogen powered cars, so don't assume they will require zero energy to produce. I see hybrids a step in the right direction if they can achieve mass appeal production. Based on the long waitlist for them, i'd say they are getting there.

Finally the simple fact that you are overlooking remains….Even right now the “harm” you claim that hybrids are causing because they expend $3 per mile or whatever is next to nothing right now because there are hardly any on the road!

http://www.pointbuzz.com/news.htm?id=869

I don't know if this has been mentioned here yet but there is help for the high gas prices. If you live in northeast ohio or have a giant eagle near you and if you have a giant eagle advantage card you can use get go. When you check out at giant eagle, you scan your card before scaning your items. At the end you get a total amount off your gas at their get go gas stations. Everytime you buy something and use your advantage card the amount off gas adds up over the course of a month. After a month, your amount of gas go's back to 0.00. It's a great deal. I'm sure there are people here who have used it. A couple weeks ago, we had to fill our care up and gas was 2.65 at get go. We ended up getting 2.70 off of gas! That's right we got a full tank for free, leagaly.

needless text removed

That is all well and good however, the fact still remains that building a Hybrid still requires more energy, emissions and cost to produce than your average non-hybrid vehicle right now. Which is the issue at hand...

Last month in March Toyota sold 7,922 Prius' while Honda Civic Hybrid sold 2,232.

Source: AN Data Center

That number has been pretty steady for the last 2 years for Toyota, it dwindled shortly after the EPA pulled there original estimate of 60+ MPG and brought it down to the 40's... But reamined with a nice average.

That's quite a bit of Hybrids...this number does not include the Lexus RX Hybrid, Honda fit hybrid.

In fact, there are so many Hybrids right now that the State of California is considering revoking the privelage of letting Hybrids continue to drive in the car pool lane. They attribute the number as well as the fact that Hybrid owners are driving roughly 55-60 in 65-70mph lane to keep their gas mileage down, to this issue.

You also overlook another issue, Hybrids still burn 87 octane unleaded gasoline. While a flex fuel Tahoe is capable of E-85... a cleaner, cheaper fuel.

While the study may be buy a bunch of "idiots" that the most of the auto industry relies on to produce vehicles, parts and marketing. It's still proves the point of cost and energy consumption.

Something that Toyota has been claiming is better for the environment and your wallet now and not a few years down the line.

As far as I know, the only issue with Hydrogen is extracting Hydrogen. The engine set up and fuel delivery system is pretty much perfected as it would be similar to what you have under your hood now. Couple that with the fact that American based automakers can already produce them where they stand. While the final product of Hydrogen may not produce 0 in the energy department. It will be much less than Hybrid technology. You can attribute that to loss of the heavy, pricey and dangerous battery/electric motor. *** Edited 4/23/2006 1:49:01 PM UTC by Coastern3rd*** *** Edited 4/23/2006 2:04:58 PM UTC by Jeff*** *** Edited 4/23/2006 2:26:43 PM UTC by Coastern3rd***

Dude, it doesn't prove anything other than you can finance a study to make a point for anything. No one debates that a hybrid costs more to make and to buy, but the notion that it consumes more energy is ridiculous. It's like turning your brain off.

And batteries are expensive, but they're not "heavy" or "dangerous" either.

The Escape Hybrid battery weighs 350 lbs. The generator in the Chevy Silverado H weighs 345lbs. The RX 350 battery weighs 228 lbs.

Thats kind of heavy. The Prius battery weighs 125 lbs or about 57 kilograms. Considering a 4cyl engine weighs roughly 150lbs before it's mated to the rest of the car. It's like adding an extra transmission to the car...

Nickle metal hydride is not a safe combination by any means... especially for the environment and landfills which is where most of these things are going to end up.

So a Hybrid, which has a major component added to it, compared to a standard combustion engine of equal displacement, is using an equal amount of energy to build, drive and dispose of?

Thats whats ridiculous. Now, I'm not an import hater (much) but I'm putting my money down that say's that they do.

I'm not usually a bettin man either, but when a Hybrid Prius gets most of it's parts from Japan and a standard Focus gets more of it's parts from the same continent. I'm gonna say the oil needed for the boat to bring it over, is going to use more energy than the focus production.

http://www.gaspricewatch.com/new/

Heres a site that I go to to findthe cheapest gas. 95% of all prices of all prices are right on the head.

Dude, you're still not giving any hard facts, just what you think it costs to put it on a boat. And if you think a Ford Focus is "American," think again. A 2005 is only 60% US/Canada.

A focus is 60% US Canada, 15% Mexico and 25% German (Transmission only) which is no longer made in Germany but here in the US.. so that figure varies.

What kind of facts do you need? I can provide them..

Break it down like this,

Say the Prius came in 2 versions. Hybrid and Standard Combustion.

What does the Hybrid have that the Standard does not?

A battery and an electric motor. Right there is your increase in energy needed for production.

Now, add battery disposal... the special rotors for the regenerative breaking, the extra wiring computer etc etc... more energy usage.

Not only that... your also in a death trap should you get in an accident for you and the rescuer.

http://techbuzz.iun.edu/story_archive/hybrid.shtml

Don't forget the smugness you get from driving a Hybrid ;)

(I assume some of you watch Southpark)

But you're still making the absurd suggestion that an electric motor and a battery uses 1,000 gallons of gas to be produced! You can't prove that.