News: Cedar Point opening delay costing city of Sandusky

https://pointbuzz.com/News/Story/3305

And this is why I think the park will be given the green light to open in some form this year. Even if it's not the safest thing to do, from an economic standpoint, it is important .

This is big problem for a community that was showing some great signs of a rebirth. Unfortunately, that rebirth was largely based on the service and hospitality industry. They have way too many eggs in one basket and this is evidence of that.

You can't fairly compare Sandusky and Orlando but there are lessons to be learned. Orlando has spent the past 15 years+ pushing the Technology industry which pairs nicely with aerospace and aviation, other significant economic drivers. Sandusky's major employers outside of the park are government (county and school employees) and hospitals. They are going to need to take a look at continued efforts to rebalance their economy going forward.

I will say that the introduction of sports tourism (and the effect of extending the visitor season into early spring and late fall) was a good move, though again the return to normal sports programming anytime soon is far from certain. I will be interested to see how travel sports are impacted by the economic downturn. One would think that is discretionary income that would be easily eliminated to protect a family's finances but people are pretty passionate about travel sports, sometimes irrationally so. They may not get hit has hard as one might expect.

I just took a drive through downtown Sandusky and there is lots of construction going on. New apartments/condos going up and rebuilding several streets. I hope everyone can weather the storm until this all ends.

Wow, the city manager admitting they are in deep water and asking the federal government to step in and provide financial relief? That’s shocking.

This is the same city government that squeezes CF for tax revenue and increases every chance they get. Maybe if they had been focusing on diversifying their tax base instead of squeezing their golden goose they wouldn’t be in this position.

You need to do some research. The City of Sandusky isn't "squeezing" Cedar Point. In fact, Cedar Point supported an admissions tax increase back in 2014. The City, park and County agreed on a joint funding arrangement for the sports park. Your mantra of "government bad" is getting tired.

I have been very impressed with Mr. Wobser as a City Manager and while they certainly would like to see a diversified economy that is never going to be easy simply due to their location. They are an hour away from any major airports (two mediocre ones at that).

Reference: https://sanduskyregister.com/news/160121/cedar-point-takes-lead-on-...sions-tax/

Reminds me of a book I'm reading... 🙄

Sadly as mentioned above this is the impact of putting all of your eggs into the tourism basket. Especially in a seasonal tourist area. Hopefully the city learns to invest in other areas going forward so there isn’t as much dependence on the summer months.

Regarding the Death of Expertise, and admittedly I haven't read it, I'm assuming (high level) the author points out the decay of our ability to have positive, constructive debate on a large variety of topics and points to the many reasons why folks have formed their thought processes the way they do without utilizing critical thinking and multiple, objective sources of data. I'll also go out on a limb and guess that it sums up that we should trust the experts, even though experts sometimes get it wrong, but most of the time, they are right. Regarding our elected leaders, I'm thinking the opinion is that we should trust our elected leaders, but in doing that, we must have an educated and well informed populace when voting in these leaders (which ties back to the first point of people not being well informed). And thus the continuous cycle of folks set in their ways (unable to leave their stance, despite what the data says), these same folks then voting in our political leaders, and round and round we go.

I understand the details are a bit more complex than that and I am always looking for a good book to read. But if this is where the book is headed, what is the thought process on how it can be changed? And are those thought processes realistic?

Going back to my original point about the "TV" news, there are many folks who gain a significant portion of their insights and form opinions with the 30 second sound bytes being spoon fed to everyone (which you previously pointed out was what a lot of the viewers wanted and the media was just delivering on those expectations).

It's great that the perceived issues are pointed out, but as is common in pretty much environment I've been in, thanks for identifying the problem - what is the solution to fix it? I'm not trying to be a smart arse, I am genuinely asking the question if the book is focused on problem identification or if it combines that with realistic solutions that have any chance of gaining traction.

The synopsis of the book, where it is listed for sale, gets political so it discredits itself before turning the first page. No thanks.

Hahahahaha... you're literally judging the book by its cover, and in an unintentionally ironic way, dismissing a book written by an expert about people who reject expertise because they think they have all of the answers.

No, the book is really well researched, actually, and serves as a pretty solid historical and anthropological study of the role that experts play in society. There is no conclusion, per se, other than we're headed for backward movement as a society if we don't become self-aware enough to know that we don't have all of the answers, that structurally we have people who specialize in things necessarily.

I didn't build my house, because I don't know anything about carpentry or plumbing. I don't tell my doctor, nah, I'm not going to get more exercise, your risk assessment about my health is wrong. I don't tell the city manager, no, your budgeting is all wrong. You probably wouldn't tell me that the architecture of this very software that you're using is wrong, because that's not what you do for a living.

So why would you insist that you know better than the collective global practice of epidemiology about how to control the spread of disease? What kind of entitled narcissism enables you to really believe that?

Jeff said:

So why would you insist that you know better than the collective global practice of epidemiology about how to control the spread of disease? What kind of entitled narcissism enables you to really believe that?

If you've inferred that from my posts, you have done so in error. I'm no medical expert. And I do not just google everything and take the top results at face value.

But I am entitled to my own opinions, which are formed by taking in a lot of different information and viewpoints and, importantly, trusting what my own instincts are.

What I don't think you realize is that so much of the "facts" out there are presented in a manipulative way to further the interests of the person or organization presenting them. Whether it be for political, financial, or other reasons. This is why I spend so much time trying to see bias in reporting. How can we trust information from such sources, whether they be left or right leaning?

The real danger your book might not even discuss is the absence of objectivity in reporting nowadays.

One more point, I've been long-winded this morning but that's what happens with a whole bunch of time off and crappy weather limiting my outdoor activities. I also realize none of this happens to be about CP, but since there isn't much news going on there, I've now gone down this rabbit hole.

Specific to the pandemic, I think most of us can agree, despite what is said here on our back and forth, that as reliable data is obtained, researchers and scientists will crunch the numbers, draw conclusions, and propose theories that will be reviewed and substantiated by the scientific community.

This is an amusement park message forum where we have people drawing conclusions and justifying arguments using news stories and other data points that most likely don't meet scientific standards. I have provided links, some that I find useful for me in trying to scratch the surface on at least understanding what little I can about it. I don't think the banter back and forth has anybody believing they are a scientist that could defend their position successfully in a professional, scientific review. It's an outlet for people to express their thoughts in a forum that doesn't have any relevance on public policy or safety.

I wouldn't expect most people on Point Buzz to be experts in epidemiology or virology. Lacking that expertise, and considering this pandemic is pretty much top of mind most of the time, people naturally come back to talking about it since it's impacted just about everything in how we previously went about our daily lives. But just because someone isn't an expert, doesn't mean they can't say 'hey, wait a minute, A + B isn't adding up to C for me'. I don't think anyone here has said 'I should replace Dr. Fauci, Dr. Birx, etc.' Most posts I have read center around how we have handled the public response, and if our elected officials are factoring in all sides of the debate, not just the medical side. Folks disagree on how the response has been handled, it's not that big of a deal. Our experts (pick your field) are human and can fall into groupthink like anybody else. Not saying that is the case here, but just because folks question the public response, doesn't mean they are advocating their opinion/voice should be held to the same standard as Expert Panel A, B, C, etc.

For the scientists that do reside on this board, I'm sure there are a multitude of platforms that you are already aware of where scientific data and theories can be shared and discussed with your fellow peers.

ILS, very, very well said!

That's been the problem in these debates. So many responses along the lines of "you're not an expert so you're just spreading misinformation!" when someone tries to share an opinion or thought.

Ad hominem, every time. Like I said earlier.

Jeff said:

Hahahahaha... you're literally judging the book by its cover, and in an unintentionally ironic way, dismissing a book written by an expert about people who reject expertise because they think they have all of the answers.

This killed me. You win the internet for today.

Wait? What? Where did I dismiss the book? I asked for your opinion on the book (which you provided), where did I reject the author's expertise? I asked if the book was about A., B., and C. - I'm pretty sure I said I was looking for a good new book to read and just didn't want to read something that highlighted issues with no solutions. That specific book is outside the norm of what I like to read which is why I asked - thank you for the feedback, that is appreciated.

Where, in any of my posts, have I expressed my expertise in knowing more than the experts? I haven't even given my opinion on the response because it doesn't matter. I must have missed something, because no where have I claimed to know more than the experts or given my opinion on the public response.

If your comment wasn't directed at me, I'll apologize in advance. If it was, then I respectfully disagree with your assessment.

I'm not sure why you think every comment is directed at you.

MaverickLaunch said:
But I am entitled to my own opinions, which are formed by taking in a lot of different information and viewpoints and, importantly, trusting what my own instincts are.

This is the entitled narcissism part.

ILS 0523 said:

For the scientists that do reside on this board, I'm sure there are a multitude of platforms that you are already aware of where scientific data and theories can be shared and discussed with your fellow peers.

The park's closed. The moose out front shoulda told ya'.

People can spread misinformation and bull**** all over the Internet, as they are apparently self-entitled to do. I'm just not going to let it occur on my dime.

Jeff said:

...you're literally judging the book by its cover...

Yeah, I was going to say that his post would make the PERFECT quote for the cover.

Regarding opening things back up, this FiveThirtyEight piece is worth reading.

This means that workers who were hit hardest by the economic shutdown are also disproportionately likely to suffer as the recovery unfolds. In places where the economy is being reopened more quickly, they’ll have to confront the prospect of returning to dangerous work before the virus is fully contained.

Jeff said:

This is the entitled narcissism part.

Well if that's not the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is.

And yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. Even you and me. Isn't it great?

Like I said, apologize for misinterpreting the response. I don't think 'every' comment is directed at me, but since the response was addressing my book ?, I was baffled by the last part. That was my bad.

As for the rules and your dime, understood and fair enough.

Nice movie reference - well played.