New "Ultimate" Lighthouse Point Sites

If you build vertically you don't need much of a foot print. A parking garage (assuming this is structurally feasable) as part of the pedestal for the hotel and there you go.

However, I could agree with you, and it would not be a degradation of their stated goals. They would just need to really up their level of service at Breakers then, if they are still trying to achieve the Good, Better, Best options.

I also wonder if expanding Lighthouse Point is the highest and best use. Both Breakers and Lighthouse Point sell out so there is demand for both. It would appear that the margins for the hotel could be higher, but we don't know how all the employee/service costs get baked into each price. They do have other places on point that a hotel could go to as well **cough** Cedars **cough**

Could this also be a move to allow for another Cedar Point Shores expansion in a few years?

As it stands today:

Good: Express Hotel

Better: Castaway Bay

Best: Breakers

Lighthouse Point now offers all three in various forms (Cabins, Cottages, Deluxe Cottages, RV sites, deluxe RV sites)

We're talking about a seasonal resort here. I've stayed at multiple hotel properties throughout Florida, including the multiple tiers at Disney (All Stars, Caribbean Beach, Saratoga Springs, Grand Floridian, Wilderness Lodge). Last summer I stayed on the concierge floor at Breakers. Have I stayed at nicer hotels? Yes- but I don't really see how they can build upon the current offerings at Cedar Point. My family had more fun at Breakers than we did at any of the Disney locations, but its probably because we live in Florida and over saturated by the Disney experience.

Breakers has three restaurants, a Starbucks, a stellar bar, activities on the beach, a nice pool with an (additional one opening this year) featuring a splash/slide area for kids, the rooms are well decorated and comfortable, there are multiple room types and Snoopy reads you a bed time story in the lobby before bed. The concierge floor has great snacks/beer/wine throughout the day. Aside from probably upgrading TGI Fridays, I really don't see how they can top what they currently have given the multiple limitations they have with staffing, etc. as a seasonal operation. Perkins is a toss up, but they've probably learned, again, that at a seasonal operation it is best to have a franchise come in with their breakfast offerings, recipes, etc.

The only thing Breakers is missing that modern 5 star hotels offer is a Spa. Again, I'm not saying its the nicest place I've ever stayed, but I just don't see how Cedar Point can get any better than what they currently offer with Breakers.

Additional renderings of new expansion: http://www.placeworkshop.com/project/hotel-breakers-expansion/

Tilt-a-Whirl said:

...but there is no way an additional hotel will be built.

You sound awfully sure for someone who was convinced SV was going to open in 2017: :-)

Tilt-a-Whirl said:

The only thing Breakers is missing that modern 5 star hotels offer is a Spa. Again, I'm not saying its the nicest place I've ever stayed, but I just don't see how Cedar Point can get any better than what they currently offer with Breakers.

That is flatly wrong. Breakers needs a hell of a lot more than a spa to reach 5-star status. Since you're familiar with Disney, you have a good point of reference with Grand Floridian. Look at the furnishings, decor, and everything else there, and compare it to Breakers. It's apples-and-oranges, to put it mildly.

And this has nothing to do with what I "want". I would almost certainly never stay at a resort that charges more than Breakers (booking our upcoming 5-night stay was painful enough), but it stands to reason that a truly premium resort (again, think Grand Floridian) could be good for the park.

Will they do it? I'm not sure. But I'd be careful tossing around the words "no way," especially considering your track record. ;-)

Beat me to it, Tilt-a-Whirl... Breakers is the “best” hotel option. Castaway is “better” and Express is “good”. I do not think that Cedar Point ever intends to dethrone Breakers as the flagship hotel property.

djDaemon said:

That is flatly wrong. Breakers needs a hell of a lot more than a spa to reach 5-star status. Since you're familiar with Disney, you have a good point of reference with Grand Floridian. Look at the furnishings, decor, and everything else there, and compare it to Breakers. It's apples-and-oranges, to put it mildly.

Will they do it? I'm not sure. But I'd be careful tossing around the words "no way," especially considering your track record. ;-)

First. You're right- you're comparing apples to oranges. Disney is a year-round resort destination that attracts over 20 million people... there is just no market for what you are proposing. Certainly- Grand Floridian is light-years ahead of Breakers- but its as good as its going to get for the park in Sandusky, and I find it very charming and enjoyable.

And as for track records... well, that's awfully funny when it comes from the person who was adamant that Mantis would NEVER be converted... and ain't she a beaut??

Are we all so sure that Castaway is the "Better" hotel? It's an Old Ramada with an Indoor Waterpark thrown in.

I think the better description may be:

Fair = Breakers Express or Castaway Bay

Good = Which ever wasn't chosen above

Better = Breakers

I don't think they currently have a true Best hotel. And they may not need it, I would trust Ouimet, who came from a Disney Resorts and Starwood, to know if the market they were catering to needed that product. I personally believe they could use it, and think they have the right space for it at the end of the peninsula. Hotels tend to be able to pack more people into a tight space than a campground, and growing their multi-day patronage is the easiest way to keep increasing total visits.

The campground is relatively easy to put together, and take apart if needed. I still think this is a bit of a hedge until they see if another hotel is needed.

Express > Castaway any day. Express is convenient, cheap, and has fully upgraded rooms. Castaway is just a worse Kalahari.

Going by the illustrations for the new RV sites it makes me think even more that something else will be built on the site, most likely a hotel. The layout sure looks like they purposely left space for more development. Breakers will always be the flagship because of size, beach activities, restaurants, etc. It is the hub of resort activities. That doesn't mean that there is not room for an upscale boutique hotel of maybe 75 - 150 rooms. Flagships don't have to be the most expensive, just the most significant, which is what Breakers is. A new 4 or 5 star upscale boutique hotel would complement the existing resort properties very nicely.

EXACTLY Pete!

Keep in mind that for Cedar Fair out of park (Accommodations) revenue growth has greatly outpaced both the virtually stagnant attendance and in-park revenue growth. The accommodations sector is where CF has the greatest potential for growth and is why they have stated they are looking at future on-site accommodations at their other parks. Breakers has been selling out, Lighthouse Point RV sites are as well for years now. With the Breakers remodel and expansion, Deluxe Cabins and new RV ultimate sites there's clearly room in the upper price ranges for accommodations. It would make sense management would have multiple options on the planning board for what to do with the land that most of Sandcastle occupied. Wait for this season and see how the expansion wing sells out and make a final decision on what to eventually bring to the tip of the peninsula (it's not going to be budget rooms).

I would like to see a pavilion at that end of the peninsula. A place for multiple groups of campers to gather for a picnic as well as a place for people taking a long walk along the beach a place to get out of the elements when weather comes up.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:

Breakers has three restaurants, a Starbucks, a stellar bar, activities on the beach, a nice pool with an (additional one opening this year) featuring a splash/slide area for kids, ....and Snoopy reads you a bed time story in the lobby before bed.

After reading this I was reminded that Lighthouse Point has none of this for its guests. The large amount of land left from Sandcastle could fit a nice lodge style building that would be the center of activity for Lighthouse Point and all of the campground as well as check-in. It could not only have what was mentioned above for campground guests but also actual hotel rooms on an upper floor in a more luxury style setup. The new campsites stretch along the inlet to the bay so all the land facing the lake with the beach is still available for something new.

Tilt-a-Whirl said:
...there is just no market for what you are proposing.

What are you basing this absolute assertion on? There's no hard data either way, but the observable facts (Breakers sells out regularly, FL/FLP sales continue unabated even at very high price points (and often sell out), premium parking is very popular, etc.) suggest that there are plenty of guests willing to pay more for a more premium experience. People willing to pay for something is the very definition of the existence of a market.

And as for track records... well, that's awfully funny when it comes from the person who was adamant that Mantis would NEVER be converted... and ain't she a beaut??

Touche'. :-) While I don't recall being nearly so adamant that the conversion would never ever happen, for the sake of argument, I'll grant that I was. At least I learned to not be so adamant about things I have no way of knowing for sure.

Will a new hotel be built on SS' former site? Obviously none of us know with certainty. But what we do know is that there's a sizable piece of land left on what is incredibly valuable real estate. Also, we can reasonably infer that leaving that land open was not an accident or oversight. And we can also reasonably infer that there's a market for a resort more upscale than Breakers.

Personally, in 2019, I'd like to see a Cedar Point Shores expansion with a walkway towards the Magnum turnaround that takes you to a new back section. Plenty of room for new slides, and along the beach as well. Also have a back entrance for Lighthouse Point. I don't think a new hotel is needed with the Breakers expansion. I have to imagine they can get creative and expand Breakers even more in the future.

The fact that the "Roller Coaster Capital of the World" doesn't have a water coaster in their waterpark is just sad. I'm not saying it has to be as good as Wildebeest or Mammoth, but there better be one when Shores expands.

I 100% agree LightDark. I can name 4-5 slides that Shores can really use. Last year's main addition was cool to look at, but a little extreme for many riders.

Would all those slides happen to be sitting unused at a former park nearby?

The fact that they just poured millions of dollars into CP Shores and purposefully did not install a water coaster leads me to believe they don’t think it’s a good ride for the park.

They don’t have a toilet bowl either and some people claim that’s a necessity for any true water park. But it seems management disagrees.

If they just happen to have some of these rides just languishing nearby is further evidence that management does not want them in their recently completely renovated water park.

As far as expanding shores into former sandcastle, the premium cabins installed not so long ago would be squarely in the way, the maintenance road along Magnum serves the backside of the main water park attractions and is just about the most unsightly place on the peninsula (second to a Hotel Breakers suite bathroom).

CP Shores needs more changing rooms, restrooms and dining options before adding more slides.

How is the new changing room situation now that the old one became First Aid? Specifically showers. With chance, weather and guests we only made it to CPS once last year and it we didn’t stay long as it got rainy and cold. I really need to take a shower especially after being in the wave pool or bad things happen. I really don’t want to stand outside a family changing room for 45 minutes waiting just to shower.