NEW Policy with MF seatbelts?

If this policy is the same in a couple weeks when the season hits June, who knows what the reaction of the general public will be (general public being those people who don't know anything about this new policy). Of all the people that regularly visit CP, only a small portion of that number use this site, and use it regularly. I have yet to make it to the point this year, and without this site, I wouldn't know anything about this new policy. I'd like to hope this issue is all resolved by the end of next week. If not, who knows what might happen... *** Edited 5/18/2004 2:19:46 AM UTC by Mox***

I am a bigger guy and I had trouble fitting on MF last Spring (the day I bought my Season Pass, no less)... over the previous 2 years I had had no problem whatsoever and so, needless to say, I was embarrassed and bitterly disappointed when I was not allowed to ride. In the Fall I went back on my b-day with a buddy of mine (not a coaster person) who tried to help me get into the seatbelt on MF (lapbars were never a problem), and I was able to get my first-ever front seat ride on the Force! I was so pumped, to say the least... Went back and rode in the middle as well. I was not able to even come close to fitting in the test seat for TTD (well, within 1.5-2inches, I'd say)... so I didn't even try to stand in line. I watched other bigger people try out the test seat for TTD and walk away in disgust.

I, for one, and sick and tired of this discriminatory policy in the parks - it's gotten blown WAYYYYY out of proportion. I wrote to CP mgmt last year only to receive a singularly unsatisfying *canned* response from them. Thank God this year I didn't buy a season pass - -I don't WANT them to have my revenue, as long as they continue in this exclusionary tactic.

Don't get me wrong - I don't advocate the manufacturers making rides so that they accommodate terribly obese guests. I just think that European manufacturers need to start building rides that more realistically respond to the physical needs of the average American out there - we are NOT built like Europeans, and building rides geared toward European body styles will *not* fly here.

As for all you skinny types out there who think we should just grin & bear the loss - I hope you all grow older faster than normal, that your metabolisms slow to a crawl, and that you rapidly develop a gut of visceral fat that's almost impossible to shed --then I'll be laughing my a** off!!!! Muahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:)

Rideman said

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If it is not safe, then there is an engineering issue that needs to be addressed. If there is a flaw in the seat design, then they need to stop horsing around, shut down the ride, and fix it. Tightening seat belts, stepping on lap bars, and all the other nonsense that is going on right now isn't helping matters any.

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I see where you are coming from. In this case, they are admitting there is a problem, and it should be taken care of Instead of just trying to prevent it from happening while reducing the capability of the product. To use another analogy, If a SUV rolls over easily, the manufacturer should recall it and repair the problem correctly, and not just try and prevent another accident from happening by saying "drive slower" (which is in essence what they are doing here.)

To add to the discussion with the difference in belts between the rides in question, I will add my experience. Depending on what seat I draw, what I am wearing, etc., I can get anywhere from 1 to 2 inches of slack on Millennium Force (which alone will make me stay away from the ride right now). When riding S:ROS @SFNE, the belts were considerably longer, and I had anywhere form 5-8 inches of slack.

Of course it shouldn't take a Swiss engineer to notice this little detail ;). *** Edited 5/18/2004 2:42:12 AM UTC by Joe E***

If the seat-belt routing is what I think it's referring to, I noticed my seat on Dragster a couple of weeks ago was routed over the side bars. I thought it was weird so I rerouted it under. Maybe that was a bad thing to do (I didn't think about it at the time - I just figured the belt would be more snug under the bars), but the op didn't say anything when he went to check my belt. But anyway, it's not that hard to change where it goes. Might that help, or was that a bad thing to do?

--James

Joe E. gets it.

But remember, the belt length issue at SFNE was cited in the incident report. The belts in odd-numbered seats were a full 11" longer than the belts in even rows, because of the belt attachment method.

That's been covered here and elsewhere ad-nauseum.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I've ridden MF every year since it's opening. It's always where I start my coaster season, and finish it in the fall. This weekend, we made the 6 hour trip to CP for nothing. I was told that even though the seat belt buckled, it didn't have that extra 1 inch of slack, and I couldn't ride. Granted, I'm a large woman - wearing sz. 16-18 jeans if that helps other women questioning if this policy will effect them. But I can't understand why if the belt closed, why do they require the extra slack. I thought the idea was that it's supposed to be snug. I understand since the incident at sfne they're being careful. But that guy couldn't buckle his seat belt. Not to mention I understand not only was he very heavy, but he was short. That makes a difference. CP is saying Intamin is making the rule. Fine. I won't be riding anthing Intamin again. But my problem with CP is that this new unfair policy is not mentioned on their website, or at the park until AFTER you've shelled over all your non-refundable money. I only came to ride MF and the dragster (IF it was running, unlike last year). When I talked to an official at the park, I was given the "no refunds for any reason" line. If anyone knows of any official petitions to CP and/or Intamin, please let me know.

Judging from the actions written here about what happens when the op says you cannot ride and the number of people who have dismissed from the ride, I can imagine this is is causing a stacking issue. Has CP been running two or three trains while this policy has been occurring? Somehow if this policy is still in place during the peak time during the season and officials see that MF's capacity is down from last year, they should know why, if not from the sheer number of complaints they have been getting.

SandyandTom, my girlfriend wears around the same pant size as you, give or take a 14-16 depending on the style and brand of jeans. We are planning to go sometime this summer and the last thing I want to see is this policy affecting her, even though she can comfortably fit under any coaster restraint.

They were running all 3 trains on Sunday the 16th. The line was about 1.5 hours if memory serves..

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jdoty said:
If the seat-belt routing is what I think it's referring to, I noticed my seat on Dragster a couple of weeks ago was routed over the side bars.

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Yes you noticed correctly. This does affect TTD too and the routing issue on that ride is completely new for this year. Last year all it's belts were routed under the bar in the correct position. On MF the first couple of years it was definately routed underneath too, but the last couple of years it was hit and miss sometimes they were routed under, sometimes they were routed over. Right now they are all routed over the bars unfortunately.

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BeemanCP65 said:
... the last thing I want to see is this policy affecting her, even though she can comfortably fit under any coaster restraint.

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My wife is the same way. Even though I am a little plumper than her I managed (although not easily) to use brute force to pull and inch of slack out of the belt when asked on MF. My wife does not have the arm strength I have and she is about the same size as your girlfriend is. The ride op had come over and made her pull on it and she couldn't move it and he almost made her get off the ride. I said to the rude ride op "Look the slack I had on my side was fine with my attendant, why can't she ride with the same?" His answer was to call over the other ride op to recheck and restaple my belt and make sure it was up to "code". He then pulled more on my wife's belt and finally rudely said "Okay."

It is ridiculous. We can both fit on the ride, fasten our own belts which are then tight and lower the lap bar in a snug position which is in the right place on our thighs against our bodies. This has been the norm for years and now all of a sudden they are attempting to dismiss us from the ride?!? Does that even make sense? I don't care who's directive it is. Just think about the average Joe Blow who makes like 1 or 2 trips a year and comes back this year same as last and all of a sudden are not allowed to ride even though everything is the same. You know that is going to turn a lot of people away from the park forever.

If people with waist sizes >36" can't ride their two feature coasters (sorry Magnum fans...), then Cedar Fair should demand a full refund of the money paid to Intamin for TTD and MF. That sort of restriction must clearly be outside the parameters originally specified for the ride.

When 50% of their guests can no longer ride TTD, maybe they'll finally turn it into that restaurant we've all been waiting for.

I wonder why the park hasn't gone to an Xcelerator-style operation----patron buckles belt, but operator lowers lapbar. That might at least reduce the number of restraint unlocks and pick capacity up a bit.

I got the same canned email response from Peggy Bertsch this morning. I wanted to make sure my thoughts were added to the mountain of feedback I'm sure they have received in the last few weeks. I encourage everyone else to do the same.

i just got the same response too, only mine said that riders over 6ft2 (my BF) and over 225 lbs might not be able to ride....

did yours say that, Macho nachos??

servo, who would rather see MF closed for a REAL, EFFECTIVE fix than go through this...

Yes servo that is what mine said. I know we are all getting the same response, but strength in numbers, correct? Also thank you for clarifying that seat belt routing question I had. I wasn't "getting" that at all, now I understand. :)

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RideMan said:

But remember, the belt length issue at SFNE was cited in the incident report. The belts in odd-numbered seats were a full 11" longer than the belts in even rows, because of the belt attachment method.

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Yes, and I should have stated this as well. My experience riding SROS@SFNE was from the 2002 season and there was no difference in the attachent between rows, but the belts were quite longer than Millennium Force. So if their belts held the same goofy length as that season, and are longer to begin with, adding 11" may mean that the belt that the victim was using could be 15-18" longer than a belt on Millennium Force! The belts on Millennium Force are barely that long in themself!

Whatever they are doing to the other Intamin Hypers, like right now on S:ROS @ SFDL (look at http://sfne.com/), they should do to Millennium Force. Take it off-line for a little and fix it before it is a REALLY long summer. *** Edited 5/18/2004 9:29:03 PM UTC by Joe E***

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TTD is sinking too! said:
If people with waist sizes >36" can't ride their two feature coasters

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I don't think waist size is a very good indication of the restraints fitting. I have about a 36"-37" waist size but can get around two or three inches of slack in the belt. I think it is more of an issue of butt size, people with bigger butts and thighs are having problems.

Correct, waist size should have very little to do with anything.

I'm 6'9", 265 lbs, and have ridden every coaster at CP safely for many, many years.

For reference, I have a 40" waist.

Of course, the scenario could be much different this year with the policy changes....

Wow, this is bad news. I'am one of the borderline people. I'am 6 2 230 and my waist is between 38 and 40. I have been able to ride MF every year since 2000. I have had no problem getting the seatbelt buckled but I noticed last year that it just fit, I didnt have to struggle but there certainly wasnt 2 inches of slack. With the slack criteria I dont think I will be able to ride now. I was planning to go to CP on June 14 but I'am not going now (which does stink as I still havent experience Dragster, maybe someday). Hopefully this criteria is temporary and I can try to get down there this fall and ride (maybe lose a couple pounds in the process! LOL) . Cedar Fair is still going to get my money however on June 14th. Just not as much of it. I will go to MI Adventure instead, cheaper, closer and I know I can ride the best ride there.

CP is going to have ANOTHER PR nightmare this year with this issue. Except I think this one will be worse than the Dragster turmoil from last year and ticket to ride BS the year before that! This new criteria has eliminated a decent percentage of their patrons from riding one of their biggest attractions. Right or wrong, its not a good thing for the corporate bottom line in the long run and they need to do something to correct it. Its to bad, CP has to keep having these crisis's, three years in a row now. What does next year hold??? Can we just have a normal, good season for a change?

Last year, I was 30 pounds heavier and no one complained I was too large for MF. No one fell out to my knowledge either. This year, I had a difficult time hooking the seat belt but it had more to do with the location of the latch on the belt. I could not twist around to see what I was doing.The guy finally lined it up for me so I could latch it. I think they are taking this to the extreme anyway. Not everyone is a skinny minny and if that is ALL they want at the park,they should advertise it that way. Most of us go there for the coasters! Really folks, they are getting a bit overly protective considering they have not had any accidents. I wonder how all this will affect their "rating" as far as parks go??

[IMG]http://sfne.com/includes/news/sfdl1/01.jpg[/IMG]
"I hope everyone was paying attention when we told you to hold onto the grab bars!" :O If they're going to go ahead and replace the restraints on MF, I hope they do it one train at a time and don't close down the ride and ruin it for everyone. It certainly sounds like this isn't something CF would do (and hurt themselves), it's probably orders from Intamin. "If you don't follow these instructions and something happens, we're not liable" type of thing. Also, while this might cause a PR nightmare for them, it would cause an exponentially larger nightmare for them if an accident were to happen. Also, I can't remember how the seat belts go, but can't you just "suck it up" while the ride-ops are inspecting for slack? It also seems like they're creating more dangerous situations by routing the seatbelts over the "arm rests".