NEW Policy with MF seatbelts?

With the way product liability laws are, did anyone consider that maybe CP can't just order seats and restraint bars and modify the trains on their own? Engineering changes like that may have to come from the manufacturer, who can certify that the changes are safe and proper. No one knows what is going on behind the scenes, but I'm sure things are not as simple as just ordering new parts.

Who defines "reasonable" size? Someone's always going to be left out. There were plenty of people turned away from Millennium Force and Dragster before this

If I remember correctly, after the Knott's accident Cedar Point put into place a policy regarding ride ops helping you buckle seat belts. If every time an incident happens they just require another inch of slack (or have some other reaction), does that really address the issue? If it does make the ride safer, shouldn't the belt just be made an inch shorter to remove the judgment call?

Is the problem with the restraint design? Has there ever been a problem with rider ejection on an Arrow or B&M coaster? Why is Wicked Twister more restrictive than Raptor? Is this just a case where Intamin has different standards? Dave?

If that's the case Pete, don't you think that CP, Intamin, or both should still come out in a press conference (or something of the like) and tell everybody of the new policy (compared to eveeryone who visits CP, I still say only a small number of those people know about this policy), and that they are working their hardest to correct this situation. If they know that it's going to be a week, a month, or maybe even more before this is fixed (rather if it's by new seats, new belts, or reverting to the old policy, etc.), (for example), they should come out and say it already. This isn't Area 51 and a 25 million dollar new ride being built in secrecy, all the while gaining more and more publicty...This is a course of action that is making a lot of people angry and causing nothing but bad publicity.

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Magnum XL-200 said:

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Jeff said:
It has been said over and over... the belts have not been changed. They aren't being routed any different. Some of you keep confusing the issue.

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"Cedar Point officials say the ride's manufacturer mandated the seatbelt brackets be repositioned after a man was killed when he fell off the Superman coaster at Six Flags New England." Sounds like to me that the seatbelts were changed

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IN the other thread, it appears that the routing has not changed. WHat it sounds like they are refering too is where the seat belts are mounted or their position. I am guessing the seatbelt brackets have been moved back a few inches or positioned in a way it makes the route of the belt longer.

As seen in the Newsnet5 picture, I can see where we may get confused about the routing. If the seatbelts are positioned further back, angled up more, or whatever, the side bar would come into play a bit more than if it where further down in the seat.

Just taking a guess here, I don't remeber much about the original position of the belts since it's been a while since I rode.

Those are very good questions Walt. One's I am wondering too.

I think what they should do is:

1) Place a sign at the entrance saying: "Restraint changes - even if you were able to ride last year, you may not be able to ride now. Please check proper fit by using the test seat."

2) Shorten the seat belt on the test seat to the equivalent of one inch of slack in the belts on the ride. Also, make it unadjustable. That way, anyone who can buckle the test belt will be assured of a ride.

What I really think upsets people is that they can't ride after successfully buckling the belt. They don't understand the slack rule, or the need for it.

I think I read somewhere that the reason for the slack is to make sure the adjuster is holding the belt tight, not just the stitching at the end of the belt. If that is the case, sew a plastic stop into the belt that would absolutely prevent the belt from coming apart due to broken stitching at the end. Problem solved.

Here are two pictures from 2000 (1 2) which may help with what past configurations looked like (though they're not of the best quality).

The belt routing on Millennium Force HAS NOT CHANGED.

On Top Thrill Dragster, the seat belt goes under the frame rail outboard of the seat pan, between the seat and the rail. On Millennium Force, the belt goes outboard of the rail.

We know by now that the seats are very different from one another. On Millennium Force, the seat pan is a piece of sheet metal, and I wonder if the belt routing is intended to insure that the seat belt is not abraded against the edge of the seat pan. On Dragster, I am not sure what the seat is made of, but I believe the outside edge of the seat pan is protected so that the belt can be routed through the gap inboard of the tubing without the risk of abrading the belt.

It's only a guess, I will have to look more closely to be sure...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

But what happens when people that have always ridden MF in the past (those that have just been able to get he belt to buckle) go to ride this year? They get the belt buckled, like always in the past, yet are still told that they cannot ride unless they attain one inch of slack. These people then "suck it up" to try to get the slack. They tug, they pull, they get their riding partner to help. They do whatever they can to try to get that slack. This then happens consistently throughout the day, and even day by day. Does anyone else think that that's putting a lot of unnecessary strain on the belt buckle itself? Granted I know that those belts are designed to take a lot of force and keep you in the train, even if your lap bar fails, but you would probably have a bigger chance of falling out of the coaster as a result of the belt buckle braking (in part due to all this strain put on them due to this new policy) than you would of not having the extra inch of slack.

What really does an extra inch do? It's like going to buy a belt to hold your pants up, you get one that jsut fits you. What happens if the store you go to buy it at tells you, "I'm sorry, you cannot purchase that belt unless you try it on and get at least one inch of slack out of it." Well obviously the belt wouldn't have an inch of slack out of it, (after all, it just fit) and if it did, then it would be ridiculously uncomfortable and/or even painful. The belt would still however hold your pants up, just as it is supposed to. So what would the customer do? Stop shopping there. (I know two totally different situations, jsut trying to come up with something to show how stupid this is).

Edit: grammatical errors/part of my post was really unclear *** Edited 5/20/2004 3:51:27 PM UTC by Mox***

FYI, there is a reporter from the Toledo Blade emailing members of this site for a story about the new seat belt policy. They also just ran a short story on Toledo 11's noon news. Still no mention about people who rode before being turned away though. *** Edited 5/20/2004 4:06:34 PM UTC by Ralph Wiggum***

An inch is really a very minimal amount of distance and is very tough to eyeball.

I got the e-mail from the Toledo Blade. Did they send a request to everyone that is posting here?

I wonder how long the line will be for the test seat? I have a feeling a lot of people will be trying it out.

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servo said:
tell me about it dude!!

i hope yer coming to Chicago for services at the "church" on West Adams Street!!

boy, would a little "Streets" taste good right now or what??

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Streets is always good!! I think there will only be a couple of services next spring at West Adams Street though and then a few more in late summer/early fall off Lakeshore Drive. I will be there for all of them for sure!

Back to the topic, I'am actually kind of curious now if I will fit. LOL. I'am tempted to just drive down on my own for a starlight pass and try it this weekend. Then at least if I dont make it I'am only embarrassed in front of a 100 or so complete strangers and not my friends. Then I will also know not to go back until the policy changes or a lose some pounds.

What does seem odd to me (and I think someone else pointed it out) is that CP doesnt appear to be trying to make any modifications to correct the problem. Another question, is why does the belt have to go OVER the armrest and not under it? One of my friends last year routed it under with no problem and nothing was said? *** Edited 5/20/2004 5:23:06 PM UTC by CPTwister***

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Mox said:
Does anyone else think that that's putting a lot of unnecessary strain on the belt buckle itself?

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I wouldn't worry about the belt buckle, it's designed to take MUCH, MUCH more stress than you could ever put on it by pulling it as tight as you can.

True, True.

However, since I'm going to CP on Monday, I better stay out of the Gym this weekend...just in case... ;-)

This question has to be ansered asap. When did they make the change. I rode the blue train on openign day. Were they changed by then? Any help is greatly appreciated.

They were using the same procedure on opening day, as far as I can tell. If you rode on opening day, don't worry about it, you'll be fine.

Thank you very much!!!

I didn't know how severe the policy affected the ride until I went to the park yesterday. The person ahead of me wasn't allowed in the line because he couldn't get 1 inch tightened seatbelt or whatever. I also noticed after wait for 45 minutes that the line trains are getting stacked all the time, because people are getting forced off the ride. This policy is very stupid. I'm a very thin person so I would never have a problem but CP is pushing it a little far I think.