Mantis Future

Just gonna throw this out there. Read the description

^ That pretty much dispels any theory that says Mantis can't be converted.

Like I said earlier in this section a few weeks back... What if that green paint on Mantis is green as in Akron St Vincent St Mary? Just a thought being a local thing!

First off that ride is one of the 2 sit down coasters that was converted to a stand up that is still in operation. Secondly, did you watch that video? Comparing this ride with Mantis would be like me telling someone that since they rode the Great Pumpkin Coaster at KI that they can easily handle MF.

As I have said, I am not saying it is impossible to convert Mantis, or any other stand up for that matter. The problem must be that it is not cheap, or easy to do so. If it were as simple as throwing some new trains on the track then why are stand up rides being sold for scrap instead of being converted to an awesome and amazing ride?

That ride in the video above is about as simple a ride as one could imagine. In no way can it be compared to Mantis to either prove, or disprove that a conversion of Mantis is possible. Any attempt to link the 2 is, well, laughable...

Other than a group of people here who do not like stand-ups and keep wishing that Mantis was a sit-down, is there any hard evidence that a conversion is even being considered? How do you know Cedar Point is not happy with the ride and thinks a conversion would be worthwhile? The whole thing seems far fetched to me and is just a rumor started by a pipe dream.

Almost all B&M track is the same...

The trains are all 4 across...

There would be almost 0 difference between stand up/floorless.. and even less difference from stand up to standard sit down.

The best way to look at it is like this..

The Mantis is essentially a sit down coaster anyway.. it has seats... if they wanted to do a half ass job they could take a welder and a few metal fab guys and lock all the seats at the same height and use the same cars/ restraints.. lol

Of course they wouldnt do that.. because that is dumb and unsafe.. However simply swapping out one train style to another wouldnt do anything.. especially the eypes were talking about here as they require LESS clearance.

The only problem I see would be the station.. they would need a new station. Because on Batman Knight Flight.. (now known as Dominator) the floor drops out.. so they would need to do a station revamp.

Outside of that, I think it would be quite simple.

Then again.. a station revamp would also include a new electrical layout for the ride.. but that's it.. I'd say it would cost within the vicinity of 1.5 to 2 million to do.. if that.

And after that 1.5 to 2 million what do you have?

We can all type here about what can and cannot happen. How easy or how hard something is. I was told once that actions speak louder than words. Let's take a look at the actual actions the people who own, and maintain these roller coasters have taken.

How many stand up roller coasters have been converted into some amazing and awesome new ride? ZERO

How many stand up roller coasters have been converted into a bad ride, but converted nonetheless? ZERO

How many stand up rides are closed yet still standing or in storage? 1 maybe 2

How many stand up rides have been dismantled and sold for parts/scrap? 6 soon to be 7 with Skyrider...

Once again, there is a reason the operators of these rides do not convert them and instead chose to scrap them. If it were as easy as you say to make these rides something special then why have parks not done it?

I am not a roller coaster designer, or builder, but based upon these actions the people that do know about these rides obviously know something that we do not. Thus the fact that not one has been converted yet...

I think the reason is $$

Should we pay 1 to 2 million just to change the trains and station on Mantis?

Or should we PROFIT from it by selling it for scrap, or moving it to a park that needs a larger attraction. And spend money we would have spent ANYWAY building something BETTER in its place and maximizing the value of the great location of which it resides.

Thats probably the argument as to why parks HAVEN'T converted it.. why spend money when they can make MORE! Replacing the trains is a lazy approach, and although it probably would improve the experience.. it wouldn't improve it enough to warrant spending 2 million.

^^ Agreed...

I'm just not sure how people who do not like Mantis think it will be this uber-cool most awesomest ride ever!!!!!!!!!! simply by throwing some different trains on it... Regardless of whether or not it is possible to do so.

Instead of conversions - move it to M.A. and give it a fresh paint job. M.A. gets a needed coaster to their lineup while still keeping that smaller park feel, and you've now got some real estate opened up near a swampy looking area for a cajun themed coaster.

Disney seems to think there's a lot of value in re-energizing/revamping their attractions. I think new trains, new paint, new name, new experience would definitely get the turnstiles spinning. Half of the general public wouldn't even realize it's just "new trains" on Mantis until they got to the park.

I was about to post something similar to Pete.

What I don't understand is why all the speculation about this now? This idea has been tossed out for years. Did something (other than a 6 inch swath of new paint) happen to say somehow this year is different?

I agree that there is value in re-engineering or revamping an existing attraction, and I would actually vote in favor of Mantis getting revamped, but it seems like this idea has really caught fire this season, and I'm not sure that there has been anything from the park to even remotely suggest it's in the works.

Mantis was a big deal when it came out.. the Marketing campaign was crazy I remember.

I was just 8 years old when they built it. I remember being like and inch or two too short to ride.. I was sooo mad.

I still remember the Wild Cherry Pepsi cans with the Cedar point Mantis advertisements.

The real estate the Mantis sits on is PRIME!!! seriously.. its heavily wooded... over water.. it has such an awesome "lagoon" vibe. They could do SO MUCH with that area.. that and the area CCMR is rested on.

I'm glad we have so many professional engineers on here to let us know how easy it is to convert. Especially without ever having seen the ride specs, blueprints, or simulation models.

The issue with conversion is not clearances, but the heartline which would mean that the floorless cars would be too low and could produce undesirable lateral Gs and unusual vertical Gs. Of course, standups are designed for a variable heartline. I image a lowest position seat is not much higher, maybe even lower than a floorless.

^^ from what I have gathered it has been numerous reports from Mantis ride ops reporting that next year the ride will be drastically different. Again, not reliable sources, but that along with the paint and the fact that Rougarou would fit the swamp theme is what has fueled the topic. There's no evidence from the park except Tony's picture of the ride in his most recent blog.

The "Heartline" on the Mantis doesnt really matter due to the fact it is a Standup coaster and the different heights of the riders has a more drastic effect on the "Heartline" than it would if it were a sit down ride.

I'd trust the petting zoo employees more than the Mantis ride ops, after all they do work with the Llamas everyday...

Chuck Wagon said:
I'm glad we have so many professional engineers on here to let us know how easy it is to convert. Especially without ever having seen the ride specs, blueprints, or simulation models.

The same can be said about the "experts" who say it CAN'T be done. No one really knows what can and can't be done to the ride except the B&M engineers. Until I hear from them on the issue, this is all just fun pre-announcement speculation.

GigaG said:
The issue with conversion is not clearances, but the heartline which would mean that the floorless cars would be too low and could produce undesirable lateral Gs and unusual vertical Gs.

Maybe that paint means that IF a conversion were to happen, they would also have to raise up the heartline which would mean tweeking the layout a little. I'm still confident Mantis can be converted into a Floorless. That's all I will say for now because I'm no engineer.