Mantis: 2 trains = 2 hour wait / 3 trains = 3 time

3 times less, that is.

This is probably a broken record, but let's play it again anyway.

You can astonish me with official sounding coaster words like *stacking*, or dazzle me with technical mumbo jumbo terms like *interval* all you want. It's all a smoke screen.

You can also blame Henrietta ham-n-egger because she can never get the bicycle seat situated in her crotch the right way, or John Q. Puddin' Pie because he can't seem to be able to figure out the intricate workings of a belt buckle. You're always going to have that.

Or, you might even try to cut into the ride ops and say they're just not getting it done.

In any event, 3 is always more than 2 any way you slice it. And that means ladies and gentlemen, that 3 trains will put out more people than 2 anyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

Forget about the rest of that crap CP, and go back to the way it was. It worked for 5 years just fine, why screw with it now.

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I was super before Superstew was cool
*** This post was edited by Superstew 5/29/2002 5:18:44 PM **
*** This post was edited by Superstew 5/29/2002 5:19:37 PM **
*** This post was edited by Superstew 5/29/2002 5:21:22 PM ***

You don't want to hear it, but you've just answered your own question.
Consider an example where there are only two trains on Mantis (or any other coaster). One is on the course, and one is in the station. It takes two minutes for the train to run the course. Ergo, every two minutes, one train leaves the station and another pulls in.

Now let's put a third train on our coaster. It still takes our crew two minutes to load the outgoing train. Now, one is on the course, one is in the station and where is the third? Sitting still and waiting to come into the station.

Just for kicks, let's add a fourth train. Now one is on the course, one is being loaded, and TWO are sitting and waiting to get back into the station.

I could add 7,8,9 trains, but if the crew can't dispatch a train in less than two minutes, you won't have any more people moving through than if you're running two trains (unless you want to count the early jump you will get by having all of those people run through the course and then sitting and waiting).

So, while I tried to avoid words like "stacking", "interval" and "supercalifragilisticexpealidocious", the fact is that if the dispatch time cannot be decreased, the capacity will not be increased.

And they lived happily ever after...

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Duane Cahill
If you're flammable and you have legs, you're never blocking a fire exit.

You know, what would it hurt to just put that train on. Its doing virtually no good not riding so what soes it hurt to have poeple out on the brake run.

How about they redesign the safety belt so that it's actually possible to fasten it unaided? That would cut the dispatch interval. Just hook the belt between the shoulder bar and the armrest instead of between the rider's legs. Worried about people submarining? Then extend the front of the shoulder bar downward, much as we see on the Intamin Giant Drop rides, so that the bar, rather than the belt, serves to close that gap. Since the shoulder bar and the seat horn are attached to the same pillar, the relative position of the two does not change with the size of the rider (actually that's part of the problem...), so it would certainly be do-able...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

DBCahill

Indeed...I have that 34 word song by the way ;)

And you've just rebutted your own argument.

While your explanation is great, it still isn't changing the facts. The wait is still outrageous and way longer than its ever been. It was the same way last year. From 1996 thru 2000, there was 3 train operation. The longest I ever waited was just over an hour and that was with a pretty hefty queue. Now, the queue is smaller and the wait is longer....Go figure... So what has changed? Either A: The crew all of a sudden just can't seem to be able to dispatch quick enough or B: There's one less train....@#^&%$^&@%$ Scratching my head. 3 is still more than 2, every 2 minutes or not.

And I won't live happily ever after with a 2 hour wait. The corns start to ache.

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I was super before Superstew was co
*** This post was edited by Superstew 5/29/2002 6:28:34 PM ***

While agree with DBCahill and Jeff who has also said the same thing before, Superstew does have a point that the Mantis line does seem to move slower and is often a lot longer than it used to be. Superstew is wrong about 3 always being better than 2, but I'll support him on his other argument. As their interval is right now, it is true that the third train wouldn't make all that much difference. However, with only two trains, there is never any urgency anymore in the Mantis station. They take their sweet time and as long as the train is headed out when the other one is coming in, that seems to be good enough. I know Mantis is probably the biggest pain in the butt to work (because of people bouncing up and down and stuff), but I haven't seen a crew on Mantis appear to hustle like a Magnum, Raptor, or Gemini crew in quite a while.

I think Rideman has the right idea. Tossing the third train on will not increase capacity by 50% like you would think. However, with modifications to the ride - different, easier to buckle seatbelts, etc, the third train could bring about the capacity increase that everyone would like to see.

In the mean time, I just refuse to wait for the ride. The only time I hit Mantis is in the evening when no one else is riding it.

-Matt
2001 Magnum Crew
*** This post was edited by MDOmnis 5/29/2002 8:01:16 PM ***

32 people sitting on the brake run the entire duration of a ride cycle makes not greater capacity.

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Jeff (talks like Yoda he does)
Webmaster/GTTP, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"
*** This post was edited by Jeff 5/29/2002 11:48:55 PM ***

all that a third train will do is occupy the brake run
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Millennium is spelled with TWO N's PEOPLE!!!!!

Yes, the Mantis line move slower. That's because of the extra load time now. The third train wouldn't help make the line move faster unless the load time is reduced. Even with two trains, I see a train sitting outside the station sometimes because of problems getting a train dispatched.

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It's very hard to drink all day...
Unless you start first thing in the morning.

The crew really needs to speed things up and they really need to get that third train back on the track. Ever since Millennium Force was built, Mantis' line has been longer than I remember due to the fact that many people go directly from MF over to Mantis. Something needs to be done.

What exactly do you want the crew to do? Give tests to every rider before they reach the platform? The problem isn't the crew, it's the belts.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

Sure, putting a third train on seems like it could increase capacity, but in the Mantis' case, all you will do is stack and reduce capacity. Until something are done with the seatbelts, the ride should remain status quo.

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Back from lurking
New account, same name
KW 2002

Well, the belt is there in case the latch for the restraint bar fails. What if they came up with a mechanical latch, mounted on the side of the car that acts on all four bars, that the ride op can latch by pressing a lever. This would be a second latch directly acting on the mechanism, not on the bar itself. It's different from a seat belt, but would provide the same type of failsafe redundancy and make the loading process much faster.

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It's very hard to drink all day...
Unless you start first thing in the morning.

How would stacking reduce capacity? That's going on behind the station. If anything it should increase capacity. Dispatch times would drop because the crew would instinctively be trying to move trains out quicker. Also, by only having 2 trains, your maximum output can only get so high before it stalls out. Example being 1200 rph. Having 3 trains at least gives you a chance to go over that. Maybe not all the way to 1800 rph (say only 1500), but enough to make a noticeable differece in the queue. Sorry, but *yanking* :) the 3rd train off hasn't helped anything.

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I was super before Superstew was cool
*** This post was edited by Superstew 5/30/2002 5:56:53 PM **
*** This post was edited by Superstew 5/30/2002 5:58:42 PM ***

If the lines seem longer than ever now, why hasn't CP wised up and spoke w/ B&M about building an unloading station. There seems to be ample amounts of brakes at the end... so why not use the one's before the curve as holding brakes and the ones right after as an unloading station? Is that possible or completely out of bounds?
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"Your obssesed w/ that place aren't you?"

I know this has been brought up before. To be honest, I would hope that it is possible and that CP eventually takes advantage of it. That ride will most likely continue to be a very popular ride in the dead of summer (when most people go) and needs to be more efficient. I don't really like the 1 hour+ wait for it when I go. Bottom line-something should be done to improve capacity which will most likely just be to make the seat belts more "user friendly."

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Trim Brakes.....a necessity?

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Dispatch times would drop because the crew would instinctively be trying to move trains out quicker.

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How many times do I have to say it... it's not the crew. The crew and guest could be on speed, it doesn't change the fact that the belts suck and are difficult for riders to secure. Combine this with people's inability to understand that you don't sit on a stand-up ride and you've got disaster.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

Unfortunately Petree, the current design of Mantis would require major changes to build an unloading station for Mantis. Checking the dimensions, the transfer track would interfere with that idea (bearing in mind that additional equipment would need to be added to release the harnesses).

Honestly so much of the problems stem from two sources....money and lawyers. When seatbelts are added to a ride for any reason, removing them then becomes a serious legal issue. If they would be removed and an accident would happen for ANY reason, one of the very first questions asked would be why were they removed. CP would get nailed to the wall for that no matter what they say.

So then comes in issue two...modifications. When a ride is already built and running, convincing the people in charge of finances to spend more money on it is an extremely difficult proposition. Let's face it, if it is you in that position trying to sell paying B&M to modify their belt location (which does require engineering time, research, etc) or even more modifying the brake section to now include an unload station (which would also cost you in having to have additional staff through the year), what would you say?

Quite frankly, unless there are significant complaints (which I very much doubt they are receiving), getting the money allocated is going to be extremely difficult. Running two trains on Mantis does not seem to be losing any money anywhere...in fact it probably gains since maintenance is only necessary on two trains. Mantis is not new and is not their premier attraction. And lastly, there is a limited budget and about 100 other areas needing money allocated that you have to weigh it against.

We may prefer three trains and a lesser wait, but as far as a business decision which usually it needs to be, it may just not be worth it.

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-Brian
Creative coding
Where am I now?????

Time to order 3 sitdown or floorless trains from B&M. Yeah right, like CP would ever do that

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This second hill is my favorite part of the ride. It is so Cool!
Gemini 100
Dan not going to CP anymore??..Just a big Scam
Raptor Flights: 515

If I had to guess, three new trains would cost a cool million or so. I'm not positive, but I think that sit-down trains (a la Wildfire) may have the same release point for harnesses, but I've honestly never looked hard enought at Mantis to look.

Regardless, I see no monetary advantage to replacing the trains.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"