Maintenance Strike
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The ABC station in Cleveland during their 11 o'clock news did a report from Cedar Point today on the Plumbers Lock Out.
One of the Plumbers on the picket line spoke to the camera. He said the park is now in jeopardy of opening on time. A public relations lady said the park will open on time, since the full time park managers are now completing construction projects.
They had footage of construction around Lighthouse Point, the "refreshed" main gate, and it looked like work going on in Challenge Park.
The locked out plumber also said most of the C.P. maintence staff is not crossing the line. Then they showed rides still in pieces, like Giant Wheel missing its cars.
The same worker also said that construction costs per worker at Six Flags Ohio and Kings Island are more expensive than those at Cedar Point.
One of the Plumbers on the picket line spoke to the camera. He said the park is now in jeopardy of opening on time. A public relations lady said the park will open on time, since the full time park managers are now completing construction projects.
They had footage of construction around Lighthouse Point, the "refreshed" main gate, and it looked like work going on in Challenge Park.
The locked out plumber also said most of the C.P. maintence staff is not crossing the line. Then they showed rides still in pieces, like Giant Wheel missing its cars.
The same worker also said that construction costs per worker at Six Flags Ohio and Kings Island are more expensive than those at Cedar Point.
Great....this will be interesting.
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*2000 - Cedar Downs crew, WildCat/LaserShow crew
*2001 - Cedar Downs assistant team leader
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*2000 - Cedar Downs crew, WildCat/LaserShow crew
*2001 - Cedar Downs assistant team leader
I don't know if I like the idea of the managers completing projects... This definately WILL get interesting!
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PO!NT OF VIEW - A Different Look at Roller Coasters
http://www.crosswinds.net/~justmayntz/thrills/
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PO!NT OF VIEW - A Different Look at Roller Coasters
http://www.crosswinds.net/~justmayntz/thrills/
Well at least the managers are earning their pay! LOL
-Eric
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E Blitz Entertainment
Bay City, Michigan
A Division of LCA Entertainment
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-Eric
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E Blitz Entertainment
Bay City, Michigan
A Division of LCA Entertainment
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Never trust the guys who are ON strike for thier comments. Of course they want it to sound more serious than it is, it's in their best interest to make it look like a major problem so they get public support behind them.
It's politic's.. I wouldn't worry about opening day..
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MF 2000 - 269 laps
MF 2001 - ???????
It's politic's.. I wouldn't worry about opening day..
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MF 2000 - 269 laps
MF 2001 - ???????
Great point, Rob, they always do want the public support so they'll play it up. CP has so many different resources to use, this won't be that big a problem for them, most likely.
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PO!NT OF VIEW - A Different Look at Roller Coasters
http://www.crosswinds.net/~justmayntz/thrills/
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PO!NT OF VIEW - A Different Look at Roller Coasters
http://www.crosswinds.net/~justmayntz/thrills/
But we can all trust the company that locks them out? I'm not taking sides, but BOTH are playing politics ... not just one. Just like it's in the union's best interest to gain public support, it's in CP's best interest to downplay the incident. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
I think you underestimate how much those workers mean to the park. They cannot just go out and hire replacements. The ride mechanics go through a four year apprenticeship program. There is no resource to replace that experience.
Even when they're all on the job, most are working overtime this time of year. So what happens when they're not on the job? That's a lot of man-hours.
I wouldn't worry about the park not opening on time, but if this goes on for a while, someone's going to be have a mighty busy April!
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VirtualMidway
http://www.virtualmidway.com
*** This post was edited by Gemini on 3/24/2001. ***
I think you underestimate how much those workers mean to the park. They cannot just go out and hire replacements. The ride mechanics go through a four year apprenticeship program. There is no resource to replace that experience.
Even when they're all on the job, most are working overtime this time of year. So what happens when they're not on the job? That's a lot of man-hours.
I wouldn't worry about the park not opening on time, but if this goes on for a while, someone's going to be have a mighty busy April!
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VirtualMidway
http://www.virtualmidway.com
*** This post was edited by Gemini on 3/24/2001. ***
I agree 110% with walt...I just went through something similar where I work and it was very lengthy and caused a tremendous amount of work for many others and a huge backlog when the strike did end. Rest assured theres a lot we don't know or need to know and if it goes on for too much longer whos knows where we'll be may 6th?
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http://www.msu.edu/~armbrus9/cp.html
mf laps = 100! No More No Less!!
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http://www.msu.edu/~armbrus9/cp.html
mf laps = 100! No More No Less!!
Remember, the reason for that apprenticeship is because it's required for anybody who wants into that union. Not saying that's necessarily a bad idea, it's just that there are a lot of qualified pipefitters around who aren't in the union. In fact, from what I've read, that's the whole sticking point right there.....!
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Exactly Dave,
Granted.. I still believe that unions should be dis-banded. It's a never ending process. These guys strike, so we're gonan strike to support them (usually violating their own contracts at the time). Reagan did the best thing on the planet with the air traffic controllers strike (now I realize that probably 85% of the people on this site have no idea what I'm talking about) when he said.. "Fine.. you want to strike.. you're all fired.. " hehehehhehe
I loved that man...
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MF 2000 - 269 laps
MF 2001 - ???????
Granted.. I still believe that unions should be dis-banded. It's a never ending process. These guys strike, so we're gonan strike to support them (usually violating their own contracts at the time). Reagan did the best thing on the planet with the air traffic controllers strike (now I realize that probably 85% of the people on this site have no idea what I'm talking about) when he said.. "Fine.. you want to strike.. you're all fired.. " hehehehhehe
I loved that man...
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MF 2000 - 269 laps
MF 2001 - ???????
I gotta tell you guys, I was about to jump into this topic with both feet, even had a long reply typed up, until I thought about it. This is a Cedar Point forum, not the "Should Unions Exsist?" forum.
If someone monitoring the local news could keep us out-of-towners posted on the strike itself, I'd appreciate it. I, for one, would rather not wade through a bunch of wannabe political analyst's ramblings to find some information that has some value.
Thank you.
If someone monitoring the local news could keep us out-of-towners posted on the strike itself, I'd appreciate it. I, for one, would rather not wade through a bunch of wannabe political analyst's ramblings to find some information that has some value.
Thank you.
I'm not sure what exactly this is about, but if its strictly about money then it's another blow to the whole theory behind the principle of the original union. Those were formed for reason's other than just money like Job security, and most of all safety! If anyone ever read Upton Saintclairs The Jungle you know why if unions did not from we would still have people arms getting cut of in hot dog machines. Money was another issue, but those people did not make enough to put food on the table and shoes on their children's feet.
If there horrifically underpaid to the point were there children are suffering from malnutrition and are walking around with tattered clothing, then I sympathies with them. If work conditions at the point are unbearable and there is minimal job security, then I also sympathies with them. If it's just they want to make a few extra bucks, then I don't. If they think grossly underpaid for there services, then they have may have right to compensation, but they have no right to stop all "Productivity." Ask for a raise, and if the boss doesn't give it to you, go work someplace else
Unions can be good if they aren't abusive and monopolistic, which is what we may have here since CP just can't drive into sandusky and pick up new workers of the street. My opinion is they are sort of outdated. If memory serve me correctly, the first U.S. unions were formed around prohibition, and thank God we don't use that anymore! There are plenty of laws around that protect nonunion stiffs like me.
If there horrifically underpaid to the point were there children are suffering from malnutrition and are walking around with tattered clothing, then I sympathies with them. If work conditions at the point are unbearable and there is minimal job security, then I also sympathies with them. If it's just they want to make a few extra bucks, then I don't. If they think grossly underpaid for there services, then they have may have right to compensation, but they have no right to stop all "Productivity." Ask for a raise, and if the boss doesn't give it to you, go work someplace else
Unions can be good if they aren't abusive and monopolistic, which is what we may have here since CP just can't drive into sandusky and pick up new workers of the street. My opinion is they are sort of outdated. If memory serve me correctly, the first U.S. unions were formed around prohibition, and thank God we don't use that anymore! There are plenty of laws around that protect nonunion stiffs like me.
I think maybe we're talking about something different? Don't the ride mechanics go through a 4-year training process before they are "turned loose" on their own? I thought that was a CP program, not a union program.
I'm not even going to get into the union argument, because this is not the place for it. Besides, which side would I argue? I was a seasonal union landscaper for 6 years at the park and I currently work on staff for a rail labor union. Then again, I'm a staunch conservative and believe equally in the power of business and in capitalism. I think that Cedar Point brings up some great points in their current argument.
Unions have their place and have done lots of good. But, they do overstay their welcome as well. I know - I've seen it from the inside!
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VirtualMidway
http://www.virtualmidway.com
*** This post was edited by Gemini on 3/25/2001. ***
I'm not even going to get into the union argument, because this is not the place for it. Besides, which side would I argue? I was a seasonal union landscaper for 6 years at the park and I currently work on staff for a rail labor union. Then again, I'm a staunch conservative and believe equally in the power of business and in capitalism. I think that Cedar Point brings up some great points in their current argument.
Unions have their place and have done lots of good. But, they do overstay their welcome as well. I know - I've seen it from the inside!
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VirtualMidway
http://www.virtualmidway.com
*** This post was edited by Gemini on 3/25/2001. ***
Geez, a lot of resentment out there. The union wants more bucks for its members; Cedar Fair wants more bucks for its shareholders; and so it goes. It's all part of that wonderful system known as capitalism, and I for one think it's worked pretty good so far.
Even though I am far from your typical knee-jerk union booster (although I'm from a hard-core union town and currently belong to two different locals) I am always careful to give them credit for what they've done for all of us - or has everyone forgotten sweatshops, slave-labor pay, unsafe work conditions, etc., etc. And remember, there are those that DIED for the rights in the workplace millions of us take for granted today.
That said, I sure hope the park opens on time ...
Even though I am far from your typical knee-jerk union booster (although I'm from a hard-core union town and currently belong to two different locals) I am always careful to give them credit for what they've done for all of us - or has everyone forgotten sweatshops, slave-labor pay, unsafe work conditions, etc., etc. And remember, there are those that DIED for the rights in the workplace millions of us take for granted today.
That said, I sure hope the park opens on time ...
My understanding, based on the news materials I have seen, is that the primary disagreement here is not about money. My understanding is that the disagreement is over Cedar Point's desire to use non-union workers "on projects." I don't know how restrictive the previous contract was, but it is very possible that the contract stipulated that all plumbing and pipefitting at Cedar Point be done by members of that particular union. If that were the case, it would, for instance, preculde the park from hiring a general contractor that uses non-union plumbers. So management probably sees this as a means of giving them more flexibility in their contracting. The union, on the other hand, probably sees this as more of a survival issue...and it is understandable that other unions would see red flags in this situation: Today they weaken the plumbers union contract...will it be the electricians next month?
As for the accomplishments of the unions over the years...that can't be denied. What else has changed, though, is the economics of labor. Today, skilled workers are in demand and there is little a union can do to improve wages or benefits or working conditions that workers can't successfully demand on their own, because of the ongoing worker shortage. That isn't how it's always been, and it may not always be that way, but that's the situation that exists right now and that makes the union position look a little silly.
I say again...it will be interesting to see what happens here.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
As for the accomplishments of the unions over the years...that can't be denied. What else has changed, though, is the economics of labor. Today, skilled workers are in demand and there is little a union can do to improve wages or benefits or working conditions that workers can't successfully demand on their own, because of the ongoing worker shortage. That isn't how it's always been, and it may not always be that way, but that's the situation that exists right now and that makes the union position look a little silly.
I say again...it will be interesting to see what happens here.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Interesting, I was wondering what the other unions reasons were for striking. This sounds more like "job security" for the union members. So the way I see it, if the union gets what they want (meaning work is done by union members exclusively) CP loses by not having flexibility in their contract and nonunion or other union contractors, who could possibly underbid the union will not get the work. Either way it looks like CP may loose
I think I see the Union's stance, but I don't know if I agree with it. Job Security in the original, much needed unions meant that they could expect to go into work and still have a job. It sounds like they will always have a job, but they want all of them at the point. If work get backed up so much and CP agrees to the union wishes, won't they have to hire outside the union anyway?
*** This post was edited by Joe E. on 3/26/2001. ***
I think I see the Union's stance, but I don't know if I agree with it. Job Security in the original, much needed unions meant that they could expect to go into work and still have a job. It sounds like they will always have a job, but they want all of them at the point. If work get backed up so much and CP agrees to the union wishes, won't they have to hire outside the union anyway?
*** This post was edited by Joe E. on 3/26/2001. ***
I'm not getting involved in an argument here, but I'll just throw my opinion in. Take it however you want:
After hearing hours and hours of stories about the downright awful working conditions in the coal mines of Southwestern Pennsylvania from my late grandfather (both from his personal experience and his father's), I completely disagree that unions you should disbanded.
(Also, I'm probably one of the youngest members of this site, but I do know about the air traffic controllers strike.)
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How dare you vanquish the Steel Phantom without his consent? Fear the Phantom's Revenge. *** This post was edited by Lynch on 3/26/2001. ***
After hearing hours and hours of stories about the downright awful working conditions in the coal mines of Southwestern Pennsylvania from my late grandfather (both from his personal experience and his father's), I completely disagree that unions you should disbanded.
(Also, I'm probably one of the youngest members of this site, but I do know about the air traffic controllers strike.)
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How dare you vanquish the Steel Phantom without his consent? Fear the Phantom's Revenge. *** This post was edited by Lynch on 3/26/2001. ***
Big difference between pipe fitters at CP and coal miners in the 40's.
Like comparing apples and steak.
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MF 2000 - 269 laps
MF 2001 - ???????
Like comparing apples and steak.
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MF 2000 - 269 laps
MF 2001 - ???????
Here's your morning update:
http://www.sanduskyregister.com/cgi-bin/LiveIQue.acgi$rec=22219?frontpage
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?Avis=TO&Dato=20010327&Kategori=BUSINESS03&Lopenr=103270028&Ref=AR
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VirtualMidway
http://www.virtualmidway.com
*** This post was edited by Gemini on 3/27/2001. ***
http://www.sanduskyregister.com/cgi-bin/LiveIQue.acgi$rec=22219?frontpage
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?Avis=TO&Dato=20010327&Kategori=BUSINESS03&Lopenr=103270028&Ref=AR
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VirtualMidway
http://www.virtualmidway.com
*** This post was edited by Gemini on 3/27/2001. ***
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