Lots of Cedar Point news on this week's "In the Loop" podcast

Trust me, I'd love to be able to meet in the middle. And IMO, visual scans shouldn't be slowing operations down. It's really not that hard to do quickly.

Quite frankly, the person dispatching the train should be observing what's happening on the platform as well as any other visible areas of the ride throughout the whole cycle. The put your hand up to your head like there is sun in your eyes and look around like a moron for two or three seconds just before you send the train is just for show and accomplishes nothing except wasting time. Thankfully, I didn't see anyone actually doing that at Cedar Point opening weekend although it seems maybe I just didn't notice. Also heard from someone that they were doing it at Carowinds and now KI too.

In past years, the thumbs were always done in a certain order (front to back or back to front depending on the ride) and the high clear is only given when all the rest of the thumbs are up, gates are closed, and exiting guests were far enough away from the train. Additionally, I think every coaster now has at least one "enable" at the opposite end of the train as the control booth. Some also have pressure mats, etc. There are plenty of mechanisms in place to ensure that a train doesn't move until it's ready to do so and that it can be stopped if need be. Finally, everyone on the platform and in controls was to watch the train as it exited the station, ensuring all lapbars and seatbelts are positioned properly. If something was wrong, a hold was called and the train would be stopped either right there or low on the lift so it could be corrected. I'd argue that some of the changes a few years ago made it harder to actually do this since people are standing so far back from the train or behind a pole, etc.

I also noticed last week that they seem to not be using the word "Ready" like they used to. You used to say "ready" to signify to the crew that the ride is ready or about to be ready to receive another train (ie - it's almost time to get this train out of here). Now it seems like they just say "Ready clear" or "Ready all clear" right when they are about to send the train. They did this on Gatekeeper last year and they seem to be doing it elsewhere this year.

Definitely some strange changes going on and I wasn't impressed with what I saw opening weekend in terms of efficiency. I was hoping it was just a lot of new people and that it would improve, but it sounds like some of these procedures will really cut into efficiency which was already not what it used to be.

It's news like this that just makes me cringe. Like Rob said, of course every single one of us would agree that safety has to be a top priority, but Cedar Point in particular really, really overdoes it, and it sounds as if it's going to get worse. I'm sure that there are some that would argue "you can't overdo safety", but that's simply not true. I've never once felt that my (or my family's) safety at Disney was even remotely compromised.

Why?

Did the podcast offer any insight into why another unnecessary layer of "safety" measures would be added?

What's really scary is that these consultants seem to do every Six Flags park, and everyone here knows the reputation Six Flags has for operations.

One of the things that made CP special was the way the park rides were operated. It is sad to think the park thinks someone else can do it better. Not to mention, where I work, everything that was outsourced went downhill. Sometimes drinking your own Koolaid is much better that something that comes out of someone else's bottle.

FWIW, here is their website. http://www.creativeoperationalconcepts.com/iroc.html

Like others here, I was a ride operator at Cedar Point for a long time. I happened to be there over a period of time where many policies were starting to be negatively changed. It was very frustrating back then. I can't imagine having to deal with IROC. Frankly, I don't think I would have the patience to deal with that as an operator.

Since I have been a guest and living far away from the park, my time visiting the park have been pretty limited. All I can do is echo what others have said. It was very frustrating to see last weekend at CP and at opening weekend at Carowinds. As a former ride operator I feel I'm pretty familiar with the normal beginning of the year learning period. However, it was pretty clear at both parks that there was more to it than that. Only then to learn about IROC. In fact, one instance at Carowinds during their "scanning" period, I saw one operator turn their head completely around and look behind them down at the exit ramp. What on earth does that accomplish? It was clear from most people's expressions during their "scanning" that they weren't really doing what was intended. So why do it at all? Visual checks and rechecks were already part of the process.

I have a feeling that the intent with IROC was simply to establish a consistent ride operation/safety policy and procedure across the company. In the past, Cedar Point always seemed to be the best of the parks with the others a clear notch or two down. Now it seemed they made everyone at a consistent lower level. As others have already mentioned, I don't understand why if the intent was indeed to establish a company wide procedure, why not take the best you have (Cedar Point's) and apply them across the board. Of course I don't know for a fact if this was the actual intent but was just the first logical thing that came to my mind.

I did see instances this past weekend where the associates were trying to make the best of it. At Rougarou, I noticed in line that after each train parked, they would stand there and hold the exit gates open and usher people out. The whole time in line I'm thinking, why aren't they checking seats as soon as they can? All 3 trains were stacking every time after all (which sort of defeats the purpose of adding a third train back). When I got off, it was obvious that they associates were trying to move as quickly as they could but the bottleneck was getting everyone off the platform. You could almost make an argument that encouraging guests to exit trough the gates as fast as possible is more of a safety risk than what the intent of not checking seats until everyone is behind the gates was meant to do.

Granted part of the problem at Rougarou (and many other stations) is the terrible guest flow. It always been clear that Cedar Fair won't invest in layout changes to the station to alleviate some of these issues resulting in poor guest flow and longer wait times. The elevators added to many rides a few years ago is a great example of this. Having also worked for Disney (as an engineer) it's amazing to see the effort that is put into things like guest flow and capacity. Disney will not only look at opportunities but committ the dollars to improving flow and capacity in existing facilities and attractions.

Overall, these changes within Cedar Point and the rest of the company are indeed frustrating and definitely seems to cross the line between ensuring safety and too much safety. I can only hope that logic will prevail eventually.

Well look on the bright side... they're not pushing people through metal detectors, wanding people and insisting you put your wallet in a locker before riding. I wonder how that's going at Universal...

Hopefully the IROC folks don't take a shine to the new Universal procedures. Before you know it Cedar Point will be frisking guests before letting them on Woodstock Express.

Cedar Point practically invented the entire discipline of ride safety, and for years was a model of safe, efficient operations.

I can understand if they are outsourcing some of their training, but process is something they should own completely.

I remember noting in prior years that it seems they keep adding steps and details to the loading process in the name of improved safety, and yet there never seems to be any evaluation of whether a new process or procedure actually has any effect at all. Rules are written and procedures are implemented but nobody seems to know why, or what was to be accomplished...and worst of all, because new processes are never really evaluated, they never go away. It's the old 'safety and security' positive feedback loop: a negative event means you did not do enough, the absence of a negative event means you did at least enough. There is no measurement to tell you when you have done too much.

Even that comes from a ridiculously narrow definition of what constitutes a negative event. A reduction in capacity is acceptable if it makes the ride more safe. A tooth-smashing back-wrenching emergency stop on the back brake doesn't count so long as nobody has to go to the hospital. And if a train goes sailing through the back brake after being stopped there a few hundred times, then clearly that is a problem with the safety related control system...the fact that the components were not designed to perform a fully loaded emergency stop on every cycle, but are now forced to do so due to an operational problem cannot possibly be a factor.

I keep saying that the safety theater and overkill has got to stop somewhere before the experience is destroyed and/or somebody gets hurt. And yet every year I see things becoming even more silly. Last Sunday I was in 'tour guide' mode most of the day so I wasn't able to pay such close attention to any operational changes, but I'll be sure to keep an eye on things this season and see if any of it makes any kind of sense.

Oh, and (at the risk of potentially alienating some friends...) where is Bill Spehn when the park desperately needs him! 8-)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RideMan said:

A tooth-smashing back-wrenching emergency stop on the back brake doesn't count so long as nobody has to go to the hospital. And if a train goes sailing through the back brake after being stopped there a few hundred times, then clearly that is a problem with the safety related control system...the fact that the components were not designed to perform a fully loaded emergency stop on every cycle, but are now forced to do so due to an operational problem cannot possibly be a factor.

Has the story changed from blaming the rain to blaming the control system now? :) I see them set Magnum up more in one trip through the station now than we used to in a week. I'm sure the next step is to just go to permanent two train operation. :( Nevermind looking at the actual causes to why things are so different now than they used to be operationally.

I agree with everything you said. Stop the madness! They ought to send their operations and safety people on a visit to Disney and watch how they move people. It's sad that CP has gone from a model of how to do things right in ride operations to just being mediocre like almost everyone else. And the bean counters probably somehow think they are better off now.

It seems like it's one of those cases where people who aren't actually the ones operating the ride are under the impression that a bigger checklist = more safe. Or just don't take capacity and dispatch interval into mind because "slow and steady = more safe" or what have you.

Hopefully this is something that gets ironed out by the meat of the season once school is out, otherwise it's gonna be a looooooong summer.

I'm not getting into causes. The only inside information I have about that well known incident and things that have happened since is that the components which were replaced last year were long past end of life, and I hope the park was smart enough to take the stuff they removed and store anything that still functions so as to be able to keep the Dragon running.

The fact remains that something failed, and a safety system didn't do what it was supposed to do. I don't really care why, so long as the cause was identified and dealt with. I have no reason to doubt the rain theory, as much as I may think it is at least incomplete. The fact is that stopping on that brake is an abnormal operation caused by not getting the train out of the station on time. There is more to safety than checking five times to make sure everybody is strapped in. In fact the odds of accidentally losing a rider due to missing something in the station are vanishingly small compared to the risk of damage and injury due to a collision if the dispatches are delayed.

Incidentally, there are a couple of coasters at another park which do not have seat belts for precisely this reason: when running with two trains it is safer to operate without seat belts because the trains can be dispatched faster, so that trains do not need to be stopped on the safety brakes. The brakes are there and will stop the train, but almost never have to do so because the station is clear when the train arrives.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I didn't realize IROC was a part of 'When Pigs Fly'. These people really are a joke when it comes to what they do. A friend of mine that oversees a park used to hire them to do live undercover audits of the park for $3k a visit with no useable results. He finally cut them off and ended up hiring me in place of them for the consulting. I didn't have any complaints of course:) When I took over I went back through all of their logs and paperwork and found nothing but crap. What they considered efficient operations and good/poor guest service was a joke. I wouldn't recommend anyone using WPF (especially when you can use me for less :) )

I read their "Who we Are" page. It reads more of a bloated resume than anything else. Ms. Beazley includes awards that are 10 years old, it begs to question what has she done since that time. She also lists she serves as an "adjunct faculty member", which is a fancy way of saying part time.

Ms. Huddy lists awards from 8 years ago, again what has happened since then. Also listed is the "prestigious American School of Protocol". When I looked that up its a 5 day etiquette course. Of special note that you will receive a corporate inquiry package along with sample marketing pieces and other correspondence items are included and discussed so trainees can ‘jump start’ their own etiquette business.

I find it odd that in their partial list of clients Valley Fair is listed, Cedar Fair is not. But Six Flags has their own column.

I don't see them as a joke, these Ladies are running a scam.

IROC = Irregular Ride Operations Course

I think I liked IROC a lot better when it had people like Al Unser Jr, Arie Luyendyk, and Mark Martin involved.

Their client list is not even close to being updated. There are a few parks on there that have not used their service in years.

Lash said:
I don't see them as a joke, these Ladies are running a scam.

IROC = Irregular Ride Operations Course

Or, how about,

IROC = Idiots Ruining Our Coaster.

But remember, the average park guest will not even notice it.

They might if they have been to Disney recently. Conversely, if they have been to Universal recently the effect might be the opposite. :)

I see what you did there Shades. ;)

Shades is right, the average park guest most likely will not notice.