Late Ride Openings

Brian Noble said:
The gate-opening times are on the park website's calendar, and have been since it was published---early in the season, its 9:30/10:00. As things pick up, it's 9:00/9:30. Except for bonus/halloweekend fridays, it looks like Resorts/JCC is an hour before open, and GP is 30 minutes. Friday evenings it is 30/open.

It may be frustrating that it changes, but at least it was published---unlike the staggered opening times.

I see that now. As a regular, I don't look at the schedule, because in the past, opening was always the same.

Brian Noble said:
ETA: we may be talking about different entrances. I came in the main gate, not the resorts gate.

Yes we are. I always use SC entrance.

The different times for Joe Cool/Resort Guests and for the general public have existed on some days throughout May for about the last 3 years now.

because in the past, opening was always the same.

I could have sworn that the times varied last year, too. That's why I got into the habit of checking. I could be wrong, though.

Yea, the varying gate opening times did start in 2001 - when Dan Keller took over I believe. They vary the most in the early season and then they sort of work into the pretty standard Joe Cool at 9, gates at 9:30 for the majority of the summer. I don't know if there are any 8:30 Joe Cool days anymore - there used to be a few I think - mainly Saturdays in July.

Having said that, the hotels have been known to "advertise" the wrong times or wrong rides on their little bulletin boards. Checking the calendar on the website seems to be the way to go for accuracy.

Jeff said:
That's not even a valid comparison. Six Flags grew too big, too fast, and financed themselves to death.

I don't really see how you can say it's not valid. Cedar Fair just doubled the size of their company earlier this week with one transaction. That's growing pretty fast to me. And they took on a whole lot of debt to do it. In fact, Six Flags debt as of their last quarterly report was $2,127,178,000. Cedar Fair is right there with them now. I have a lot more faith in Cedar Fair's management than the old Six Flags regime, but I don't like to see them following in those footsteps at all. Cutting everything that sets you apart and makes people love you might ensure the next distribution, but it's not going to ensure the long term future of the company. *** Edited 5/25/2006 11:02:25 PM UTC by MDOmnis***

Stop it, Matt. You don't know what you're talking about. If it's good for the investor, it must be good for the company at large. Guest experience doesn't matter as long as the bottom line is met.

You're living in a fantasy world where amusement parks are emotional and fun. They're a business. That's all they are. Don't expect anything else.

Jeff said:
More expense == less money to give to unit holders (and spend on cap ex, service debt, etc.).

...but Jeff, where's the "more expense" coming from? Sure they added Skyhawk which added a few ride op positions, but they also removed WWL which takes away around an equal amount (technically more) ride op positions. Seeing as how they haven't raised the ride ops' wages (which is a whole different matter), how can you say that it's more expensive to run the rides this year compared to last year?

Please enlighten me about what's changed in the past year within the company (fiscally) that requires the park to cut hours from both ends of the operating schedule. I'm not trying to be an ass...I genuinely want to know if you have any insight.

CP_bound said:

Jeff said:
More expense == less money to give to unit holders (and spend on cap ex, service debt, etc.).

Please enlighten me about what's changed in the past year within the company (fiscally) that requires the park to cut hours from both ends of the operating schedule. I'm not trying to be an ass...I genuinely want to know if you have any insight.

The price of energy. Inflation.

With inflation, theoretically it's cheaper this year to pay employess 6.25/hr than it was last year.

Cedar Fair decides to open rides later than usual during the off part of the season. The decision seems to be based on A.) Little to no ridership at 10am and B.) Cut a few $$$ off the bottom line.

So that makes them the next Six Flags and proves they do not care about the guest experience..

That must be why they added Skyhawk this year, they sell 25 cent cotton candy, seem to be fixing MF as fast as they can, re-routed seat belts on MF, keep the park clean, lowered prices on admission, lowered most food prices, added perch and fruit, got rid of auto spiels etc...

See where I am going with this? Of course not. You're to busy complaining about something that has not and probably will not affect you to notice the other great aspects of the park.

But it will save the company some money and that might allow them to give higher returns to investors or even *gasp* have money to lower other prices on other things available to you in the park or build other rides. I'm sure opening rides later does not mean another record breaker down the line, but it might help the cause. *** Edited 5/26/2006 12:41:21 PM UTC by Coastern3rd***

Well said, Cn3rd.

Michael Darling said:
Guest experience doesn't matter as long as the bottom line is met.

The guest experience isn't hurting (but your argument is, which is why you're apparently resorting to sarcasm). Coastern3rd gives just a few reasons, and I'm sure there are more. If you'd stop looking at the park through enthusiast and/or former seasonal eyes you'd see that. I took a CP virgin to the park last weekend, and she was blown away. She can't wait to go back.

Yeah, Cedar Fair just incurred a ton of debt, and they actually have a plan to pay it off. They have good credit, and will service interest at $100 million a year. Six Flags never had that luxury, and they poured tens of millions of dollars into small parks where they'd never make that money back. How is that like the Paramount Parks acquisition? It's not even remotely close. I suggest you read the news item here on the financials of the deal. Buying five established and profitable parks is a far cry from buying small regional parks and spending ridiculous cap ex on them.

Jeff said:
Buying five established and profitable parks is a far cry from buying small regional parks and spending ridiculous cap ex on them.

*cough*GeaugaLake*cough*

You've got that right! Four coasters in one year? I never understood that move, especially when they followed it with ads that invited comparisons to Cedar Point.

My understanding is that is exactly why they did it. To compete with Cedar Point. Of course, what SF didn't realize then (and didn't until Snyder took over) Cedar Point is more than coasters. Its not just the rides but an entire experience that people go for.

Especially considering that those four coasters were opened in 2000. It wasn't like CP had anything big going in that year. :) Yeah, I'll drive past Cedar Point and Millennium Force to ride four average coasters (okay, so Dominator/Batman is a good one).

I would of typed up all the things Cedar Fair does to keep people happy, but I don't have the stamina to sit here and type for three days straight.

Coastern3rd said:
Cedar Fair decides to open rides later than usual during the off part of the season. The decision seems to be based on A.) Little to no ridership at 10am and B.) Cut a few $$$ off the bottom line.

So that makes them the next Six Flags and proves they do not care about the guest experience..

That must be why they added Skyhawk this year, they sell 25 cent cotton candy, seem to be fixing MF as fast as they can, re-routed seat belts on MF, keep the park clean, lowered prices on admission, lowered most food prices, added perch and fruit, got rid of auto spiels etc...

Well, the argument can be made that the park finally realized that they were pissing people off over the past few years with the removal of the little things that made the park special, meanwhile steadily increasing the price of admission and price gouging at the food stands. Whether it's price gouging or not is unclear, but when people saw $3.00 for 20 oz. of pop they couldn't help but feel ripped off, even if it's comparable to what you would pay at a concert or ball park. Now if they see the $2.50 pop but then some $.25 cotton candy they don't feel the same way. It's psychological more than anything.

These type of concerns were no longer just voiced on the Internet by enthusiasts, but by guests with their wallets. As much as people like to rip on enthusiasts about their comments on or recommendations of the next ride to be added to the park, the Cedar Point regulars here are generally a microcosm of the park's general public patronage. We just notice things much quicker because we attend the park more often and have an opportunity to discuss things with other regulars. When it comes to money, when anyone complains about something here there's generally a "trickle down" effect that reaches the general public. It may take a little while, but it happens eventually.

What the park has done is reduce the price of admission (which looks great at a glance) but they haven't done it out of the goodness of their hearts. The result is cutting an hour off much of the operating schedule. I'd like to be so bold as to say that the park would never reduce the price so much as to operate at a loss from the previous year, so I think it's safe to say that the change in the hours balanced out the reduction in admission price. So why have they enstated a policy where they are opening some of the rides later than the scheduled park opening time? Because they can? Because it looks good to the investor? Well that's precisely the type of attitude that led to them pissing off guests in the first place!

I just hope that this whole argument will be moot once the season gets into full swing, because hopefully by then they will open all the rides when the park opens...

People may have bitched and moaned about the pricing, but that didn't stop the per capita spending from going up. Where they were hurting was the overall attendance slide, which I'm assuming was not made up for in the higher spending.

Went to the park again today with a once-a-year friend, and we had a great time. Still not thrilled with service at walk-up food venues, but I can't complain elsewhere. Even the Skyhawk crew seems to be finding a groove now, despite an inefficient loading routine. In terms of operations, I've been really impressed this year. Nice crowd today despite the threat of rain.

It looked like on my last visit they added one person to Skyhawk (or maybe it was the person from enterance?) so at least the one controls op could remain in the booth and not have to come out. Also they were doing more of a quick double check with the second person barely touching your restraint - which jives with what I was told was the reasoning for the double checking in the first place (it's not really to double check the restraints, but more to get a second look at a person to see if they need to get off or something like that). I still think they could do better, but the process WAS moving much quicker than on media day and opening day.

I agree that operations have looked better so far this year - especially that Millenium Force crew. Hopefully last year was as bad as it is got. Still don't agree with a lot of things they've done with red dots and such, but at least the crews seem to be really hustling and caring about efficiency a bit again this year which is a good thing. I hope the positive mood stays all summer. Real spiels should help in that regard I think.

I have never worked there and usually make 3 three day trips a year. I consider myself a normal guest.

The only operational change that I noticed was the return of the live spiels, and I welcome that. As far as other things "going down hill", I just have not seen it. That's not to say it has not happened, but I have not seen it.

Just booked a return visit in mid-June. I will watch things very closely, but this will be a Show intensive trip. We'll ride, but not like in May.

MrScott