Johnny Rocket's...

Exactly right. And, Fascination for me was not only fun, but I did win some good prizes such as a DVD player.

Personally, over the entire season, I spent much more money at Fascination that I do at Johnny Rockets.

Jeff, I'm not afraid to say that gambling is stupid. It's just as stupid as smoking cigarettes, which you waste your money on and throw your health away. I do smoke, however, and obviously, realize it's a poor decision. But, you have to realize that you could co to Wal*Mart and buy a DVD player for $50, vs. spending time in the park that you could be using for other attractions, while spending loads of money to win tickets playing Fascination, which I guarantee you'd spend more than $50 to win that DVD player.

Fastball84, I do agree with you that Johnny Rockets has no business being within an Amusement Park. While the whole Johnny Rockets idea is rather cheesy to adults, it provides excellent entertainment for families. Johnny Rockets I'm sure was added to provide a family-fun/friendly dining experience within the park.

Bottom line, the Johnny Rockets within Cedar Point IS, without a doubt, the worst Johnny Rockets I've been to. Including the new location in Perrysburg, OH outside of Toledo. It is also a Franchise (same investors as Cedar Point's location), and has all of it's Staff from Cedar Point. It's General Manager is the Former Assistant Manager from Cedar Point, Nate McCullogh, who is a terrible manager.

I can't wait to see Geauga Lake's Johnny Rockets go to sh*t next season.

Ohh sorry, I didn't mean to start an argument over which was better.

Could someone explain Fascination to me though? I never got the chance to be at Cedar Point when they had that.

This isn't an argument. I was just simply stating that I feel Johnny Rockets is better for the park than Fascination was, even though it is a crappy one.

Cedar Point's Johnny Rockets brings in over $1.5 million dollars in Sales per season. The store itself cost just that much. They paid it off in one season, and look how much money they are raking in now. It's a very sound investment.

So are you saying the CP's Johnny Rockets has outside investors and is not owned by the park? Or is the Perrysburg OH location also owned by CP, with CP staff running it?

Along the same lines, could the new Dave's BBQ on the far west side of Cleveland also be a CP project, or related to CP in some way?

Any idiot can buy any "prize," but it's not as much fun as "winning" it.

Sorry, but I couldn't stay away!

I don't think any of us really disagree that Johnny Rocket's makes more money than Fascination did, or even that it offers different (some might say better) service than other food places at CP. But it's an idea somebody else came up with and made successful before they came to CP. Does CP really need to improve their bottom line at the cost of originality or creativity? I, for one, find it really disturbing to see CP making more decisions that seem to be more profit-driven than quality- or experience-driven. JR's may make more money, but I believe that Fascination was far better for the park. I know a major park like CP has to progress, but this was ultimately uneccessary.

Forget about your feeling about games (it's obvious you're missing the point of them, anyway) and think of it like this: It's like somebody taking your grandparent's house, the one they built with their own hands and you visited as a kid, and bulldozing it to put up... well... a Johnny Rocket's.

Coasterguy: You are dead right about Fascination's exclusivity... Johnny Rockets lost that when the second store opened. It is just a chain joint. Some might think you are waxing perhaps a bit too nostalgic, but I kind of felt that way about how they went about making room for Raptor 10 years ago. Raptor is CP's version of a generic ride. (Please don't jump on me people i know raptor is a great ride) There are coasters that are nearly identical to Raptor (a B & G ride, isn't it?) elsewhere, but try to find another Mill Race! Same deal, though, Raptor has done more for CP than Mill Race ever could. But the 'Race was a vital part of the midway in the 60's and became a sort of 'Funday beacon' for young families seeking an exciting (not to mention cooling off in that nasty Lake Erie water- it was bad in the sixties- my nose knows!) ride they all could share together (most families could fit in one 'log') and 'tweeners'- those kids who were too big for KiddieLand and too short for the 'big' (lol) coasters. The Raptor for the 'Race is a good trade, but then the deliciously confusing tangle of 'turnpike cars' two tracks (when I first drove 'turnpike', I couldn't figure out for the life of me how to get to that 'other lane over there'! I think it took me about a year to figure out there were 2 tracks! duhhh!) is gone, too. I always liked the globe-shape queue shelter. Taking away the Funhouse, Buccaneer, er, Pirate Ride, and Earthquake forever changed the Midway, as well. (Isn't Peanuts stuff kind of Old school, Baby-boomer, anyway?)

Hey, I wanna buy a Johnny Rockets for a million-point-five and have it paid off in a year. All I need is to borrow a dozen CP employees who will work 75 hours (horas?) per week- all summer plus Hallowknds- (you are allowed to sing and dance and all-you-can-eat), CP will defer my rent $ for a year (all-they-can-eat, too, and I will sing and dance for them), and. last but not lease, LEAST, several high-limit credit cards to charge food and those high-priced JR commissary items like paper products, cups, bags, cooking and cleaning supplies, etc. et cetera, AD NAUSEUM. You know the Johnny Rockets people will be watching us like hawks to make sure we use official 'JR' stuff. I'll owe the credit card people a LOAD of LOOT after six months of $8500 days at the 'rockets on the midway- my home away from home. Yuck.

Wake up! Who would finance a food service operation that is staffed by someone else? If an outside partnership or individual is putting up the investment- it is only to satisfy the terms of the franchisee/licensee agreement. There's probably language in there that precludes Cedar Fair (and companies like Cedar Fair) from being a JR franchise holder. Enter the third-party investor(s). After the year is up CF is owed a BIG chunk of $ for salaries and benefits, utilities, space rent (performance-based, of course), and a whole host of other overruns and unforeseens. You, the third-party investor now own the restaurant's equipment, the rental agreement with CP , and hold the right to sell 'JR' burgers at CP. Big Deal. The majority of the till take will go to cover sales tax, commissary items, construction and equipment costs, as well as expensive 'Johnny Rockets' signage, furnishings, decor items, anything that makes the place look like a 'JR'-that's not provided in the franchise package. That stuff has to come from that nasty over-priced commissary. It's gonna cost ya. I hope, that, as a third-party investor here, you have the smarts to invest in 'JR' stocks. They're on the NYSE, aren't they? Ahhh. Here they are. Under 'JRB'. How about that! Those stocks are kind of like a 'rebate', if you will. The more restaurants (like yours, I mean CP's, no yours)) buy from 'JR' commissary- the bigger your limited 'rebate' will be! Cedar Fair (or CF brass) has a nice collection of 'JR' stocks, too! What a coincidence-NOT! CF may have a few more (thousands??) shares than you do- they play by a different set of rules, being simply an investor and not a franchise licensee. This can go a bunch of different ways, but you get the picture, you can see why the CF brass lost their fascination for Fascination. If Johnny Rockets takes in that AVERAGE $8500 per day, they will be here for the long run. If they were selling Thacker burgers (Hamburger Station burgers?) it would be a sure bet! rob

"I once saw a guy on the rocks with a little boat in his drink!" -rc

The third-party investor is there so that CF can load up on 'JR' stocks... franchise licensees are usually precluded from doing so by their agreements. The investor will own the equipment (which is probably being sold to CP) and the agreements only. But the franchise agreement could be worth a fortune in a few years if the restaurant performs well (...and I don't mean singin' and dancin') rob

at the cost of originality or creativity

You're kidding, right? Disney is creative. Universal is creative. Heck, even Busch can be creative from time to time. Cedar Fair buys rides and plunks them down. Short of some of the coaster layouts, CP is about as vanilla on the creativity scale as it comes.

If you want to play fascination that badly, go to Indiana Beach.

*** Edited 11/6/2004 1:50:23 PM UTC by Brian Noble***

Bottom line, the Johnny Rockets within Cedar Point IS, without a doubt, the worst Johnny Rockets I've been to. Including the new location in Perrysburg, OH outside of Toledo. It is also a Franchise (same investors as Cedar Point's location), and has all of it's Staff from Cedar Point. It's General Manager is the Former Assistant Manager from Cedar Point, Nate McCullogh, who is a terrible manager.

I can't wait to see Geauga Lake's Johnny Rockets go to sh*t next season.

I really don't think It's nice to call out Nate like that. Even though you may not agree with the way he does things, doesn't give you the right to label him as terrible. and FYI.. no I don't work at Johnny Rockets... but it seems the one in Perrysburg is doing well and it's not ALL the CP staff... BTW... you spelled Nate's last name wrong.

But really.... don't attack Nate like that.... that's just cold hearted

** GOOD LUCK NATE!!!

Perrysburg has great business, as far as everything else... complete mess. They had TWO Days To train their servers before opening day. They literally were training them while drop ceilings were being installed. Perrysburg is not a good thing to talk about with the Johnny Rockets Name right now.

Mr. Noble,

I agree that Cedar Point has been lacking in the creativity department, though I think it's a little unfair to compare them to Disney or Universal because CP's a traditional ride park, not a theme park. Regardless, to plant national chain restaurants into the park shows absolutely no creativity at all. In fact, it comes off as downright lazy to me. If the park feels like it lacks in the food department, then improve the food (in many cases, CP's food is already pretty good). If they want a cool, themed customer experience, they have a great Show Department, use them to come up with some cool stuff. Don't bring in somebody else to do it for you. And certainly don't do it at the cost of a great piece of CP charm and history.

Playing Fascination isn't entirely what I miss about it. It's the idea that such an old, classic game could be around for so long and still be enjoyed by many people, generations even, especially in such a prominant location on the midway. And I certainly don't need another reason to go to Indiana Beach - that's a park with character!

And trainROBber, perhaps I do come off a little over-nostalgic (I, too, was quite upset when Mill Race closed. It was a favorite of mine.) I just really hate to see amusement parks, especially one with such a long, great history as Cedar Point, clear-cutting their old classics for new attractions when other options are available.

I'd buy your "don't have outsiders do this for you" argument, except that CP has consistently shown either an inability or an unwillingness to build anything with a real theme to begin with, or maintain that theme over time.

As evidence of decayed theme, I give you the caves on WWL, the tires etc. on TTD, the thematic elements of Calypso, the music on the carousels, the whole of DT, and the slow strangulation of Paddlewheel. As evidence of absence of theme to begin with, I give you every coaster *except* DT and TTD (and maybe CCMR). Fronteirtown/Trail is perhaps the single exception to this observation, but depending on which rumor you believe, that might be short-lived too. Camp Snoopy is good, but credit goes to Knott's, where CS has been around for quite some time.

As for the shows, they've got three "song and dance" routines that are hard to tell apart, a good ice show that was developed by the folks at Knott's (a CF park with good shows, BTW), a pretty decent dive show with high-school theater production humor, and a nighttime spectacular that is, well, not all that spectacular compared even to some Six Flags attempts. The shows during Halloweekends are much better, but several are outside acts.

Cedar Point is a great place. The location cannot be beat, and the whole package is one of the very best traditional amusement parks, period. On balance, I think they've managed to maintain that traditional park feel well in the face of extraordinary growth. And that's from someone who *really* misses the shooting galleries. But, it's hard for me to see that CP can be called in any way "creative", and having outside people come in and provide some spark might be better than having none at all.

Edit: I forgot about the restaurants. I haven't been in game day grille yet, so I can't speak to that one. Donut Time was a good idea, and fairly well executed, though it would have been even better to have a donut making machine that people could see (even if just for show). Midway makes up in value what it lacks in quality and theme. Breakwater makes up in views and relaxed atmosphere what it lacks in quality and theme. Given two restaurants that have essentially the same theme---Coasters and JRs---JRs wins hands down. The food is better. The jukeboxes work. There is period "art" on the wall. Bay Harbor is a good place, but very retro in decor and menu, and I'm not sure that's more than happy accident. The place on point with the most raves this season seems to have been Dave's BBQ---a franchise. *** Edited 11/8/2004 8:09:45 PM UTC by Brian Noble***

I totally agree with you! It's what I've been saying all along. CP is losing (or has already lost) it's original thinking, and it's doing so at the cost of history and charm.

And you site a perfect example in JR's and Coasters. Why should there be 2 restaurants with the same theme, with the outside chain version making the park version look so bad? Why not make Coasters the Cedar Point version of a JR's? They're making themselves look bad! They're basically telling the public that they can't come up with and/or maintain their own ideas anymore. Instead, they take other people's ideas, make them a little better, just to save/make a buck. Worse yet, they sometimes do this in response to nearby competitors (Wicked Twister to WoA's Superman Ultimate Escape or Castaway Bay to Great Bear Lodge). I'm afraid that sooner or later, it's going to be so bad that CP will be just another Six Flags-style park with an awsome location and devoid of historical attachment.

Cedar Point - BE YOUR OWN PARK!!! Stop doing what other parks are doing! Stop looking so much at the bottom line and take a look at the park! Stop selling your soul!

It's like talking to a brick wall.

My criticism on this is that the park has lost some of the little things that gives it character, and makes for a memorable time.

Various things such as the Hobo Band, The Beach Band, Remote-A-Boats, soap making on the Frontier Trail, a working blacksmith, Fascination, the charm of the midway train station (ugly screen), taffy making, a decent swimming area on the beach instead of the kiddie pool it is now, nightly live entertainment at the Breakers, Jungle Larry, Christmas time coaster lighting, funhouse, dark rides... I can probably think of more.

While none of these things drive attendance like a major coaster, I wonder how much they play a part in repeat business. They create a sense of CP being more than just an ordinary park, which makes people go home with the desire to come back. While I doubt anyone would plan a trip because of the Hobo Band, I know that it made people feel happy. Many of these thing are intangibles that are hard to measure on the bottom line, but I wonder how much long term satisfaction and good will they create.

CP hasn't had a record year in awhile, despite the fact of new 300 ft. and 400 ft. tall coasters. Could the loss of little details, in spite of glitzy new rides, play a part in this? I don't know, but maybe they are moving back in time a bit with next year's new addition.

Does anyone know where to pick up parts for Fascination? It is really hard to keep something built with war surplus electronics running, sadly i came a season too late for it but i have heard the horror stories. And Cedar Point is certainly not the first park to shut down it's fascination operation, and im sure as time takes its toll on the equipment it won't be the last.

I'm sure they have them custom made.

We're very sorry if anyone had a bad experience at our restaurant, but we want you to know that the bashing of this place is not necissary! Myself, and Rachel were both Supervisor's as well as Servers and we always tried to make our guests happy. We enjoyed working there and making all of the great friendships that will last longer than any complaint or bitching that any of you will ever make! All in all, most of you are jealous of us. Everyone wants to be a Rockette, and all I can tell you is that you must suck as a person and that you probably suck at life as well! Thanks to you for getting us more involved in this. We'll def be back for another summer of dancing, and pure craziness!

J-ROCK DON'T STOP! EVA IN LIFE!!!!!!

Ty & Rachel

Johnny Rockets 2004

I have a question. Every time someone gives you a bad comment card, do you call them and insult their character? Do you how bad this reflects upon your resturant? I hope that people read what the managers said to people who gave them negative feedback. You're not a cook or a server, (not that I would expect what you said out of them) you are the leader who is supposed to set and example. We're not bashing you. We are just giving you constructive feedback and we feel that a cheap game would be more productive. Plus, a as manager you are supposed to be able to take some critiscism.