Iron Dragon Demolition

Kevinj said:

All that said, Matthew, I'm taking most of your posts with a fairly significant grain of salt, unless my sarcasm meter is a little off I took your initial post as a joke.

Yes. You are correct.

I'm amused by the fact that most folks here don't seem to realize I'm yanking their chains...

I mean... I kinda thought the patch thing would give it away. Apparently not. lol ;-)

I have absolutely NO insider knowledge. The CP brass doesn't even know who I am... Because I'm a nobody... And they have better things to do with their time...

I told everyone my second coaster was Magnum. Wanna take a guess at what my first was?

That's right... Iron Dragon.

When the day actually comes that it really is ripped out I'll be heartbroken. That ride holds a special place in my heart.

I liked Cedar Point better than Kings Island when I was a kid because I thought it had more variety, including the dark rides and fun house, more trees, frontier trail and town, western cruise, etc., even after Kings Island installed the Beast, which is still my favorite ride. Things have switched in those regards, with the exception of the Beast still being my favorite.

Mystical Matthew, perhaps you should practice your witticisms on a different crowd. I think it's not quite working for you here.

Mystical Matthew said:

Sorry to everyone for trying to have a lighthearted discussion. If you start at the original post it should be obvious that I don't take myself too seriously...

Perhaps it's not anyone's style but let's not be mean, please, when none was intended by the OP.

Mystical Matthew said:

...Iron Dragon will be removed to make a bigger, better Luminosity. The new Dive coaster is expected to be considered its "replacement".

Mystical Matthew said:

I'm amused by the fact that most folks here don't seem to realize I'm yanking their chains...I mean... I kinda thought the patch thing would give it away.

What exactly are you trying to tell us? Was this a joke/sarcasm or did you really hear something? I'm not trying to "call you out", I'm just really confused at this point. Why did you ask a drink stand worker about something sold in a gift shop, and why would any of the summer employees (like the Lemon Chill guy) know insider information like this?

The Lemon Chill guy was the give-away. When He said the Lemon Chill dude said......, I knew he was "yanking our chains." And he added, "you know how much he can be trusted."

Just to be clear... I have absolutely no insider information and have heard nothing.

I was under the impression that "Lemon Chill Guy" was lingo for "bulls**t" amongst enthusiasts. At least that's how I've used it (and heard it used).

I initially thought that it was obvious. Then I thought everyone would figure it out eventually... (Millenium Force as a kid's intro to coasters? Really? And PipeScream is a coaster only by technicality...).

5 pages later it became clear that a few folks were taking me seriously and that the joke was ceasing to be funny. (If indeed it ever was in the first place).

I am legitimately sorry if I upset anyone.

Kevinj said:
Cedar Point is miles away from being a kid-friendly-family-oriented park with regards to its collection of rides. Is it better than a decade ago? Absolutely. Does it have a long way to go? Yep.

Although I agree with most of the points you make, for most families the window of time where kids are too short to ride many of the coasters at CP compared to a park like Magic Kingdom is only a few years, if that. Once the kids grow, it's really a moot point as rides in both parks can be ridden by all. Then, it just comes down to preference if you like your rides milder or wilder.

Playing devil's advocate, perhaps a park like CP in the entire childhood age range of 1 to 18 offers more total family time. As kids get older, they may have more interest in the wilder rides which could lead to more quality family time enjoying the rides together. I know I was like that.

Saying it was all a joke but then using examples of rides similar to Iron Dragon being removed due to parts availability and maintenance cost increases send mixed signals to say the least. Regardless of that, I do not think that the removal of Iron Dragon is an unreasonable topic of discussion so it is easy for me to see how the sarcasm wasn't picked up.

If the park announced that they would be removing Iron Dragon I would not be surprised. I just hope it wouldn't be replaced with a B&M and their standard ridiculous 54" height requirement.

Mystical Matthew said:

What's the whole point of a "Starter" coaster anyway? My second roller coaster was Magnum. It was the biggest thing in the park at the time.

I've been hooked ever since.

Not all kids are like you

Pete said:

Kevinj said:
Cedar Point is miles away from being a kid-friendly-family-oriented park with regards to its collection of rides. Is it better than a decade ago? Absolutely. Does it have a long way to go? Yep.

Playing devil's advocate, perhaps a park like CP in the entire childhood age range of 1 to 18 offers more total family time. As kids get older, they may have more interest in the wilder rides which could lead to more quality family time enjoying the rides together. I know I was like that.

I agree with you 100%, Pete. The problem is when you have multiple kids, and we only have two. As a family, that window of time "restarts", if you will, every time you have a new child. Our 7 year old hit the magic 48 inch mark this year and took FULL advantage of it (she even rode Millennium!), but our three year old most likely still has four more years to go before she can do anything big sis can.

This is exactly why I think that just a couple quality family additions could make a huge impact on CP's offerings.

For a long time, I considered Iron Dragon, Disaster Transport, and White Water Landing to be the "starter" big rides. Now 2 of those are gone and ID had its height requirement changed to 48". I like Pipe Scream, but there needs to be more.

I really think Mine Ride could fill that role if they could put trains on it that would support a lower height requirement. The trains and controls for that ride have been disappointing for a long time.

Mine Ride would be the perfect family coaster as it was when I was a young child riding with my father.

Pipe Scream isn't enough of a major ride to draw a family with under height children. The hole is still there.

Please keep in mind that even though MF is a 48" H it is still a behemoth that can be quite intimidating to a child. Back in my day, Gemini was the record breaker.

The years are short, but it is much nicer to be experiencing them with your child instead of being separated by the height limit. Which is why Jeff is having such a great time with his child right now. How fortunate to be so close to that park!

Cedar Point used to have more general attractions.

I created an account specifically for this thread. This has been something that I've been observing for the last three years. Over the past three years, our family has multiple days at CP each year, one day at KI each year, and a trip to WDW for a week in 2013. We also spent a day at Dorney and HersheyPark in 2014.

The progession of my kids for the last three summers (2013/2014/2015)
currently 10: 48"/50"/52" (yes, she's short for her age)
currently 6: 42"/44"/47"

Even though I mentioned it. I'm not even going to discuss WDW in this post. It was no contest.

Between CP and KI though, CP was our preferred park in 2013. With Planet Snoopy in the front and Camp Snoopy in the back, we could "separate" our family for a little bit and not be on completely opposite sides of the park. Include some of the flats that the younger child could ride with a parent that are spread through the park, and it was a much more enjoyable park for us as a family. While there was more for him to do in the Planet Snoopy area of KI, there was practically nothing for him outside that area. My wife felt like she was trapped in that area (she doesn't ride the big roller coasters, but she wanted to at least be with us while we rode)

In 2014, HersheyPark was probably our preferred park. Their rider height visual cues (various candy bar brands) made it very easy for the kids to identify what they could and could not ride. The youngest was able to ride a couple different roller coasters there and we did not have to separate our family for extended periods of time as, again, there was usually rides of varying ages spread throughout the park. KI and CP were severely disappointing for him last year because the Snoopy rides simply didn't hold his attention any more and he was too small for the things his sister was riding. His favorite ride after a day at CP in August was Lake Erie Eagles (I think mostly because he was able to ride by himself).

Dorney was nice, perhaps because it was different for us. He was able to ride the Wild Mouse coaster with a parent as well as a few other things. Again, though, we didn't stay in Planet Snoopy very long. He was severely disappointed he couldn't ride Thunder Canyon there since he had ridden Kali River Rapids the previous year. I also found it odd that my daughter was able to ride Dominator there (48" restriction) when Power Tower is 52". Are the restraints that different?

We went to CP on May 31 this year. There were a few more things he could ride with a parent compared to last year, but again the day was pretty disappointing for him. He wanted nothing to do with Planet/Camp Snoopy except for Woodstock Express and the Dodgem School (the latter he rode three times). He was also upset again that both Thunder Canyon and STR were not yet operating (after Memorial Day!?!). We're Going to KI this Sunday. There's a few more things for him this year compared to last (White Water Canyon better be running, I tell you), but I again expect our day will be over shortly after dinner. Even with the water park included, he will be done.

Let me put it differently.

As a parent, I am realistic to the fact that I am living in the beautiful window of time when my kids actually want to do things 1) with each other and 2) with us. While we will undoubtedly always do things as a family, there will come a time when hanging out with your parents simply isn't at the top of the list. At 3 and 7, they also adore each other and want to do as many things together as they can.

When we go to Cedar Point today, the amount of things we actually do together as a family is very limited. Mommy takes Kylah (7) to do the bigger kid things, while daddy takes Hayden (3) to "enjoy" Cedar Point's idea of family rides in Camp Snoopy, or vice versa. Mommy or Daddy wait through lines and use parent swap while the other parent is in Planet Snoopy or the pet farm. It just becomes an organized event with different people doing different things.

This is where a ride like Shoot the Rapids really becomes a strikeout. They had a chance to build an enjoyable family ride, and completely, completely missed the mark. They didn't even hit the target.

So they're going to take out a roller coaster, fill in the swamp with concrete, (which they just emphasized the swamp with Rougarou this year), and maybe expand the stage and add a few bleachers? Sure Iron Dragon might be removed in the future, but I don't think that room would be used for some 'okay' shows in my opinion.

Most of you know what a rumor is right?

Pete said:
Although I agree with most of the points you make, for most families the window of time where kids are too short to ride many of the coasters at CP compared to a park like Magic Kingdom is only a few years, if that.

The problem is that these are pretty important years. The time before your kid starts school, and I suspect even their first year or two, are pretty special, and it sucks that you can't do most things together. It really is a drag.

And I never even thought about the issue of having multiple kids, who tend to be at least a year apart. Suddenly that window goes from four years to potentially ten, depending on the spread. Make no mistake, that's important, because the impressions you make in that time frame tend to be habit forming in an annual way.

This discussion reminds me of the "genetic vacation behavior" Matt Ouimet has referenced in interviews. They seem to understand the importance of those windows where the kids are a certain age. I hope this translates to more true family attractions in the future.

Earlier I was reading a PointBuzz thread that was started when the height requirement was increased from 46" to 48" for Iron Dragon. It seemed that at the time many people thought it was a poor decision. Now here we are talking about the lack of family friendly coasters and the impact it has on guest experiences.