Intamin Bashing

I really doubt a project like Demon Drop isn't very well documented, the designer(s) wouldn't just keep it in their heads. Sounds like the Lemon Chill guy told you this.

Why don't we just paint Demon Drop BRIGHT yellow, and rename is Lemon Drop.

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crazy horse said:
If I am not mistaken, demon drop was struck by lightning the year it came out.

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Alot of the tall rides are struck by lightning. Really tall metal structures anchored to the ground have a track record of attracting lightning and precautions are taken because of it. So its no big suprise that it happens, nor could it be considered a design flaw. In fact, it would be a design flaw if the electricity was routed right into the frame of the ride instead of down a lightning rod and into the ground.

Magnum suffered so many lightning hits its first season that it blew out the strobe lights on the lift hill repeatedly.

It and all the other giant rides at Cedar Point are struck by lightning on a semi-regular basis. Ever notice those big, metal balls-on-sticks atop Dragster and Millennium Force? Those are heavy duty lightning rods whose intent is to (hopefully) store a bigger charge on them than anything else around to draw the lightning to the ball instead of the ride.

Lightning happens. Precautions are taken, but it doesn't mean that there's no chance of anything going wrong when it hits. Just because you have a lightning rod doesn't mean that lightning will always strike the rod and not the ride. There are no guarantees, however, the rods improve your chances of not destroying your stuff.

You're right, there is no GUARANTEE that lightning will hit the rods, but lighting control is designed into the plan for the coaster. They don't just put them out there and say "If its struck its struck, nothin we can do".

Does anyone remember seeing this guy (don't know whom it was) interviewed on David Letterman that brought a working model of the Demon Drop with him? Wish I had that model.

My brother rode DD early on and said it once broke down while he was in line for it. He then said that the mechanics brought out this huge what looked to be like a wrench to fix the problem. He said the tool looked like it came from a cartoon or something.

I do remember hearing stories of DD's frequent breakdowns during it's first season that were so delayed, many riders had to exit their car at the top of the tower and walk down the stairs; which at the time had to be pretty scary being one of the tallest rides in the park. This may have been a rumor, who knows. *** Edited 8/25/2004 6:21:21 PM UTC by DemonDroppin'***

Hello. I'm new to this board, just discovered it yersterday.

Personally, I have been very pleased with the Intamin designs at Cedar Point. I think they rank above and beyond the other rides.

I can see where the cable problems on TTD can be attributed to design flaws that need to be fixed.

But I can't see blaming Intamin for the "passenger ejection" fatalities. From the research that I have done on those particular instances, it seems that the passengers and/or operators seem to be at blame. The man ejected from the Superman ride was not secured properly. The woman who fell from the Perilous Plunge was standing up and, therefore, was not obeying rules AND was not secured properly.

MF and TTD have seating that is different than say the Magnum. Intamin seating is very form fitting and it doesn't seem to leave much room for variations in size and shape. So I can see why they need tighter restrictions on what size people can ride. Therefore, I think that the ride ejection problems have more to do with the passengers and operators than Intamin directly.

Welcome, but you can't actually be serious. The teenage girls at Oakwood couldn't be any more average. If B&M has gone this long without any ejections or fatalities (producing far more rides since Intamin's modern coaster era that began in 1999), I'm willing to contribute this to engineering first, human error second.

Agree with Jeff. If all these were human error then there would also be some on B & M coasters. *** Edited 8/27/2004 4:17:04 PM UTC by Sean_N***

I do indeed have to do some more research. I admit that I have just now started to get into the details of rollercoasters and such. So forgive my possible ignorance regarding some things:) I'm not familiar with other parks other than what I read about.

But I still am an Intamin fan thus far.

I don't think many would dispute the experience provided by Intamin's products, but what is now coming under scrutiny is the engineering behind it. Are they cutting the margins just a little too close in order to obtain contracts? Their attitude towards the restraint system problem is essentially burrying their heads in the sand. If you are going to cater to a particular market, you make the necessary adjustments needed to assure that nothing goes wrong. If your design parameters don't meet the needs of the client, you change them. Another question I would ask is if they could sell these same rides as they are in Europe, especially Germany. TUV standards for amusement rides are the strictest in the world.

One thing that I don't recall anyone looking at are the various forces of different rides, in relation to how likely it is for a rider to be pitched out on a certain ride.

Intamin, from what I have heard, has designed rides with stronger negative Gs than other designers. Are B&M restraints really safer? Or, are you just much less likely to be pitched out on a B&M ride because of gentle forces?

It's much more complicated than just saying Intamin is "cheap". It wouldn't be much of a cost issue to design a different shape/geometry restraint. And, I feel the hydraulic locking mechanism Intamin uses is excellent, you can get a much better fit than with a ratchet system. Intamin has had structural problems, but no one has ever been injured by any structural failure of an Intamin ride.

Intamin does provide a great ride experience, I'm not ready to bash them for engineering errors just yet. Especially without having any real inside knowledge on how the company works.

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Pete said:

Intamin, from what I have heard, has designed rides with stronger negative Gs than other designers. Are B&M restraints really safer? Or, are you just much less likely to be pitched out on a B&M ride because of gentle forces?

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This is exactly what I was thinking.

Intamin seems to be trying to push the limits farther. I'm not familiar with many B&M rides first-hand, though, except for the Raptor and I don't think that the Raptor and TTD/MF are comparable when it comes to G forces and restraints.

In the words of George Carlin, stop being afraid about things that will probably never happen to you and take a f'in chance.

You know you're still more likely to die in a car crash driving up the causeway. **** happens sometimes, you people whine and cry because you want to have the highest and fastest which requires innovation which requires some level of danger.

Seriously, if you're going to crap your pants because the rides aren't up all the time (ever read those signs before you enter the park?) or because 1 or 2 people died, you shouldn't bother coming out to the park for fear of dying by elephant attack, which is probably more likely to kill you than a coaster. The RIDE THERE IS INFINITELY MORE DANGEROUS.

Some of you just want the absolute zero danger factor... you're never going to get it, piss off and stop whining.

You want ridiculous rides that go super fast and super high? Stop complaining when they have to work out the system and (OMG NO!) shut down the ride. If you want reliable, then stick with the old stuff. If you're going to bitch because new technology has to be tweaked, then don't ask for bigger and better rides. Noone's forcing you to get your panties in a bunch about the Dragster.

I would like to see Intamin's rides do better, but at the same time I think they deserve some slack cut for them for the awesome rides they've given us and the way they continue to innovate in the face of stupidity like what's being displayed here.

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needless quote removed. how many times do I have to say don't quote the previous post? -J

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I agree with you, and to all these people who are bashing good ole' Intamin I'd shut up you little whiners. Without Intamin our tallest coasters would probably be hypers. Coaster eunthusiasts want bigger thrills, Intamin made them and now coaster eunthusiasts are bashing Intamin for making a ride that they wanted and it's kind of unreliable...so what do they do? they whine and complain!!!! I'd like to say to all those complainers, and whiners Why don't you just take a few years to study engineering and just design them yourself and see how good YOUR coasters are!!! They'd probably be worse than the Vekoma Boomerangs!!!!!! So If I were you complainers and whiners I'd shut the hell up!!!! *** Edited 8/28/2004 1:36:31 AM UTC by Jeff***

Finally someone has it right!! Nice job arearew!

Whoa! Slow down cheetah! Nobody is whining. We all want bigger and faster thrills, but we also want them to be safe. If Intamin can't make rides safe, they shouldn't build rides. One or two deaths is not acceptable. Problems like that will be the end of the "bigger and faster thrills", and we will be stuck with the current heights because of potential government restrictions. Continuing to have injuries and deaths, although a very small percentage of them, will ruin the plans of coaster manufacturors that are indeed safe.

And no, I am not more likely to die in an elephant attack. I don't ride them, or go to Africa, India or anywhere else that they reside. Elephant attack? That has to be one of the most ignorant statments that I have ever heard. *** Edited 8/27/2004 10:11:23 PM UTC by Browntggrr***

I tend to agree with Intamin's rides being more forceful than most, if not all B&M's, but what about Magnum? If you happen to get a trimless ride, the ride back on the return hills is pure insanity with way more insane ejector air than I've felt on any other ride. It's gone 15 years without incident while Intamin has had like 4 within the past 5 years.

Come to think of it, have any of the Arrows--more specifically Arrow hypers--had any incidents that resulted in serious injury or death? They seem to have an extremely good safety record for as many years as they were the only major players in coaster building.

It seems to me that Intamin already knew of the possibility of a restraint system failure because they kept modifying their original design whether it was shortening the seatbelts, adding bucket seats, or making the lapbar have a bend in it.

"If Intamin can't make rides safe, they shouldn't build rides. One or two deaths is not acceptable."

Then don't ride them. Your opinon shouldn't carry weight for the rest of us who don't mind taking the 1 in 500 million chance that we COULD DIE.

"we will be stuck with the current heights because of potential government restrictions."

That's ridiculous. You own the government. It's going to take a lot more than 1 or 2 deaths every couple years before they start to think about capping rides. Step back for a moment and remove yourself from the sensationalistic "OHMAGAWD DEATH AT TEH THEMEPARK!!!1" stance and just consider the ratio of people who ride to those who die. There's no real danger here.

"Continuing to have injuries and deaths, although a very small percentage of them, will ruin the plans of coaster manufacturors that are indeed safe."

No, they won't. Deaths are not acceptable, but **** happens. The fact that I get in a car accident sucks, but I'm not going to stop driving. If you don't want to take the chance to ride it, then excercise self restraint and don't ride it. In the mean time, shuttup. Do some investigation into actual statistics of people dying in entertainment functions and how many government restrictions have been placed. Then look at amusement park statistics. This should shed some light.

"Elephant attack? That has to be one of the most ignorant statments that I have ever heard."

No my friend, ignorance is when you can't tell blatant and obvious sarcasm and make yourself look like a fool for broadcasting out to the world you weren't sharp enough to pick it up.

Anyhow, you missed my point. If you don't like Intamin rides then don't ride them, if you're too much of a puss to take the chance to ride them that's your call, but seriously shuttup if you're going to talk crap about them when they're obviously doing their best. If you want the best, there's gonna be bugs and they're gonna have to be worked out. I bet all of you have ridden the Dragster before and would ride it today if you could yet still complain about it here saying crap like CP shouldn't buy any more Intamin rides. To you people, go crawl back into your box, and if you should ever go to CP again make sure you don't ride MF, WT, TTD, so that you can make sure Intamin knows just how sh!tty of a job they're doing.

Just don't ride them and pretend that the next 500 ft coaster isn't really there and stick to what's good in your mind. For the rest of us who don't mind taking THE ENORMOUS RISK (IE, aren't afraid to step outside without tinfoil hats), we can continue to enjoy them and will deal with whatever pitfalls they encounter while they bust their asses to give us a great ride that's as safe as possible. And we will be patient and thoughtful instead of bitter and resentful.

Peace.