If you've had platinum passes for years so you get a discount

Then after that, possibly do it again, but pay a little more for it (still being a great deal) and complain about not getting more.....just so we can talk about it again for many offseasons to come....mwahahahahahahaha!

TTD 120mph said:

Reviewing something and complaining about something can be 2 totally different things.

Obviously I'm referring to when those two concepts merge to be a single thing. Yelp, Urbanspoon, Tripadvisor, etc. would be useless if they offered me nothing but glowing reviews for every listed item. Then I might as well open the Yellow Pages, close my eyes, and extend a pointer finger.

But in what world does my stance suggest not submitting reviews to those types of sites?

In the real world, there are finite resources. There are not, for example, an unlimited number of hotels in Sandusky of good quality to stay in. In fact, there's a small handful of mediocre lodging estblishments and tons of total crap. The fact that one might not be able to justify the expense of Sandusky mediocrity does not then make the obvious reality that the motels suck out loud change if they pay money to stay there. If you want to take a narrow perspective towards this, let me remind you that they may be professionally or personally driven to do for reasons that have nothing to do with the theme park on the peninsula. I suppose someone could quit their job rather than take a business trip there, but that seems extreme.

How you extrapolated that from my post is beyond me. My point (since I guess I have to further explain it) is that expecting a problem to be fixed well AFTER it has presented itself is a poor way to go about it.

Let's look at the example of the "bad burger". Most restaurants that serve bad burgers do so intentionally. They use sub-par and/or frozen meat, the condiments are total hyper processed garbage, the buns from a bag. There is no "fixing" this. Some things don't get fixed. This is not an absurdist viewpoint. This is the reality.

How in the hell is that fixing anything?

You're assuming there is something that management believes they need fix. Not every business model revolves around pleasing the customers and ensuring they return, believe it or not.

But please, continue to infer things I don't mean and complain about Dj's lack of understanding of fallacies and ad hominems while, inadvertently, making an ad hominem comment.

What kind of ad hominem fallacy did I employ? Here is a helpful guide if you are stumped:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

Hmmm, I think you might have misunderstood where I was trying to go with my argument because I can't and am not arguing against anything you just mentioned. And disregard the ad hominem thing, I was mistaken.

I've been having a craptastic day and your "I'm seriously glad thousands of people don't take your stance and instead choose to post to etc" comment erked me in every wrong way. But I'm going to abide by my own earlier advise and wash my hands of this discussion. Gday!

godsonsafari said:

Let's look at the example of the "bad burger". Most restaurants that serve bad burgers do so intentionally. They use sub-par and/or frozen meat, the condiments are total hyper processed garbage, the buns from a bag. There is no "fixing" this. Some things don't get fixed. This is not an absurdist viewpoint. This is the reality.

And if someone continues to eat there for lunch every day while continuing to complain about the burgers, their argument doesn't hold much water.

Same thing here. If you spend every offseason whining about the cost of a pass or that your renewal doesn't get you a nifty windbreaker or some other perceived slight because you are a renewal and yet are still lined up for rope drop every opening day, your argument doesn't hold much water.

godsonsafari said:
What kind of ad hominem fallacy did I employ?

The kind you linked to. :)

godsonsafari said:
...your arbitrary standards...

godsonsafari said:
Play coy if you want and hide behind a literal understanding. I'm hardly surprised you took that path.
...
I do see the rush of highly defensive replies...

godsonsafari said:
Man, this djDaemon guy may not understand what "ad hominem" means, but he sure is good at building these strawmen.

Every facet of your argument could have been made without calling into question my standards, behavior, intellect, etc. My standards, behavior, intellect, etc. "have (no) bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made".

djDaemon said:

Every facet of your argument could have been made without calling into question my standards, behavior, intellect, etc. My standards, behavior, intellect, etc. "have (no) bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made".

Noting context in a post isn't an ad hominem. Neither is a declarative statement like, "You don't seem to understand what an ad hominem fallcy is." Nor is noting the observation that I'm entertained at watching your attempts to rationalize it all. I feel pretty confident that you are very good at typing common latin phrases, and not particularly good at identifying what they mean.

(I suppose now the discussion about what is indeed an ad hominem and what isn't will/could be argued as being the ad hominem itself. Which would be a smart move, if it hadn't obviously become the topic itself when you seemed determined to not admit your use of "entitled" came with clear negative connotations. I suppose I too am done here?)

JuggaLotus said:
And if someone continues to eat there for lunch every day while continuing to complain about the burgers, their argument doesn't hold much water.

If we want to construct strawmen, yes, it is easy to create individuals whom exhibit strange and mentally ill behavior such as this. As eluded to in my post about how some companies have a business model that is intentionally customer unfriendly, the world is more complex than that. And so....

Same thing here. If you spend every offseason whining about the cost of a pass or that your renewal doesn't get you a nifty windbreaker or some other perceived slight because you are a renewal and yet are still lined up for rope drop every opening day, your argument doesn't hold much water.

...they may not actually be at opening day for the rope drop or active in whatever other crazy Cedar Point ultrafan activity you would like them to be active in doing. But since the goal seems to group individuals with suggestions like these into being "entitled crazy whiners" appears to be the goal, then it sure helps to frame them that way for the sake of discussion.

godsonsafari said:
Noting context in a post isn't an ad hominem. Neither is a declarative statement like, "You don't seem to understand what an ad hominem fallcy is." Nor is noting the observation that I'm entertained at watching your attempts to rationalize it all. I feel pretty confident that you are very good at typing common latin phrases, and not particularly good at identifying what they mean.

"Observations", "declarative statements", and the like can all be ad hominem, provided they call into question the person making the argument, rather than the argument itself. This is not based solely on my understanding of ad hominem, but also on the description that you yourself provided. That you don't agree with the definition you provided doesn't make it less true.

But whatever, you're trolling. That much is clear. And that is also a true, declarative statement that also falls into the realm of ad hominem, for reference. :)

djDaemon said:

"Observations", "declarative statements", and the like can all be ad hominem, provided they call into question the person making the argument, rather than the argument itself.

None of those things are about calling *you* into question. Except when we get into discussing whether or not you understand what they mean. But I can see how you might want them to.

But whatever, you're trolling. That much is clear.

lolololol

Walt and/or Jeff, are you going to close down this trainwreck? Please?

Before they do, I was kinda hoping they'd reinstate pointguru for his take on the matter.

Very funny.