I just emailed Intamin

The seats on Magnum have nothing to do with the ride that it gives. That's based on ride design alone. The problem here has nothing to do with the actual ride, it's a flaw that's keeping people who SHOULD be to able to, from riding.

speedfreak said:
good idea, but the are probably not going to change the seats to much ever. Think of magnum have they changed those seats much? No, that ride hurts like a b. and they havent done one thing to fix that

Probably because most people think it's a great ride the way it is. It's not the seats anyway. Those trains are actually fairly roomy and comfy when you're just sitting there in the station. MF's are comfy too in the station. Unfortunately, they are equally comfy throughout the entire snooze fest of a ride. If I want comfort, I will sit in a sofa or ride MF. If I want to ride a coaster, I will ride Magnum. Or even Superman Ride of Steel at SF New England which arguable combines the best qualities of MF and Magnum in one great ride. They've modified the restraints on that ride to make them quite a bit more constricting and uncomfortable, but still not bad. Guess what though. The seatbelts are not more than an inch or so longer than MF's. We probably just don't hear about it as much because not as many people ride that ride.

Actually, Magnum has had some pretty significant changes to the seats since it opened, but those changes all happened a dozen years ago.

Go to Kings Island and ride Adventure Express. Then go to Cedar Point and ride Magnum. Notice how different the seats are between the two rides. Adventure Express is more like Magnum used to be.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I was looking at RCDB and was wondering if MF was the only Intamin to still have unmodified (except for the seat belt) 1st generation T restraints.

The ones I know by Height.

KK - OTSR

TTD - 2nd Generation T-Bar

STE - ??? 1st generation no seat belt??

MF - 1st Generation T-Bar

SROS (all?) - 1st Generation, ankle bar, side bar, go-no go light.

Xcelerator - 2nd Generation second arm rest added, GO- no go belt?

Storm Runner - OTSR

PP - 1st Generation t-bar, OTS Strap

Isn't it strange that CP has the only unmodified Intamin T restraints except for maybe STE in North America? I also don't know about other world wide coasters. I can think of several reasons what Intamin might not make the changes.

1. Having unmodified trains continuing to have flawless records at other parks would strengenth their case that the SROS problem at SFNE was operator error and the park ignoring the safety guidelines by have extra long belts.

2. The state of Ohio hasn't forced them to make changes like they have in other states.

3. CP wants Intamin to foot the bill for any modifications made to the trains and Intamin wants CP to pay for them.

With reason 1 especially we may not see Intamin require any changes until after all the court cases are settled.

It should probably be noted that the trains on Millennium Force were never identical to the trains on the S:ROS rides. The seats on MF are different (maybe a little deeper) and the second row of seats, while also being elevated, is not spread apart like on the Superman rides. Also, the lapbar mechanism for MF's lapbars is between the rider's legs on all seats, not just the front rows like on Superman. On the Superman rides, there is that triangular plastic cover on the sides where the mechanism for the second row lapbar resides.

It should also probably be noted that the modifactions they made on the Superman rides are definitely more constricting and slightly less comfortable, but I don't feel like they detract from the ride much if at all. But the seatbelts are really not much longer than MF's. They are slightly easier to buckle since the buckle is in the middle and not off to the side on MF, but the length is similar. So for all the complaining we do about the belts, I'm not sure if modifications would change any of that.

Heck, I'd settle for center-buckled belts.

I really think that they should have done the system Six Flags has done, minus the ankle restraints and side metal things.

They just need to have the lapbar have a sensor to tell when it's lower enough and when it's high enough.

I was at SFDL 2 weekends ago and it didn't seem like THAT many people were getting kicked off. I only saw one or two the entire day.

By the way the ride was a walk on all day, and the station was completely empty so it wasn't that big of a deal, at least you wouldn't be wasting an hour in line for nothing.

Why not just retrofit the trains like TTD? Those work fine! Sure, some REALLY big people can't fit, but it's better than MF!

I think it's a shame that CP had to do anything with the seatbelts, because if you think about it you don't get the ejector airtime on MF like you do with the SMROS That's the reason those people fell out plus the incopitience of the ride ops. If SF parks had ride ops like they do at CP we wouldn't be going through this right now.

Tonight while waiting in line I talked to a lady from the Detroit area, who told me a story that speaks to how sad this situation is for CP. Apparently one of her co-workers went to CP last year with his family, on their annual family trip. Stayed overnight in the CP resorts, the whole bit. Well, not knowing about the more restrictive seat belts, he found out that and his wife couldn't ride MF or TTD. On top of that, she said the man felt he was treated rudely by CP when he sent them a letter about the issue. Now he's vowed to never go back there with his family, and has spread the word to other people warning that CP discriminates against larger people. This lady said several of her co-workers have already cancelled their trips this year due to concerns about not fitting in the rides. This isn't some group of whiney enthusiasts here, these are your typical general patrons that CP needs to get in the gates.

Also worth mentioning is that once again, this is not just about fat people. This morning I saw a woman who I think in most people's oppinions would have had a very attractive figure. She got turned away, apparently for being a little too curvy in the hips. Problem getting out of control? I certainly think so.

Ralph, I do agree with that. This is WAY out of control, I saw last yr a bodybuilder got turned away just because he didn't get that 1 inch. On the form, How big are you? Can you ride? I see that peeps that have a 38 inch waist barely get that inch. And now the staff are feeling sorry for peeps and letting them ride without the inch. So I called and reported the seatbelt prob. The lady told me they do cut the belts. I asked why would you do that? Now peeps that can get that inch last yr can't on differant seats. She told me she will look into it and I also told her to cheack out this site, cuz we are the peeps who go there all the time and knows what the hell is going on. I got a letter a few days ago from Peggy Bertsch telling me that the belts are all the same and bla bla bla......I called her and left a message telling her that she is so wrong on everything in the letter. Now if peeps keep complaining do you think they either listen to us/fix the prob or will they lose their 8th Golden Ticket?? If it was I, I would listen to the Patrons that bring in the money and makes the park what itis all about, "Family Fun Park".

Peggy Bertsch is Director, Training and DEVELOPMENT PARK OPERATIONS. So I say call to her and complain about this issue.
*** Edited 5/26/2005 9:40:35 AM UTC by MF_Man***
*** Edited 5/26/2005 9:42:07 AM UTC by MF_Man***

peeps <- sugar covered marshmallow treats sold at Easter time

people <- Human Beings

Count me in the second group.

I don't Have a problem fitting on Millennium Force but I hate seeing people turned away for two reasons After waiting for some hours they can't get 1 Inch of slack and they get kicked off come on if the seatbelt fits and buckles around them does it not hold them in. 2nd It takes longer for the attendent to make a guy get up because the guy can't get 1 more inch than to let him go.

Brian: You might not want a center-buckled belt. First of all, the Stubai buckles need to be offset to one side, because if the buckle were centered on a rider like, well, me, for instance, it could easily fail if it caught between body parts. This is why I usually have a cable-tie wrapped around the buckle of my ****** bag when I am in the park. Second, it is not pleasant to get a seat belt buckle between your lap and a lap bar. Not pleasant at all.

Now, could we perhaps get the buckles rigid-mounted so that they can be fastened with one hand? That would help...!

How about a different version of the buckle which can actually be adjusted once it has been fastened?

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Why would you want it to be adjusted? If there's a problem, you should fix it before you leave the station. It should be so that it CAN'T be adjusted after leaving the station; this might prevent any more accidents in the future.

Yes, but those seat belts are a pain in the ass to tighten once they are fastened. I don't think Dave wants to be able to adjust it AFTER he's out of the station, just before the ride-op comes by. The angle at which it is when fastened (at least on me) makes it really hard to pull on the loop to try and get the one inch of knee-jerk reaction so that I can ride.

A week and a half ago i used my freeway handstamp on MF. It still took me 45 minutes to ride because they were checking lenghts of seat belts on the force. When a train would unlad a small black man and a blond girl started checking the lengths of the belts, I just want to say honestly they were not doing a good job. CP probably adds all the lenghts together and divides them by the number of belts so they can get an average. I wear a 33' jean waist size and weigh 220 at 6'. I rode in the front seat on the force and barely got 2 fingers of slack, rode in the middle and got 4 fingers of slack, rode in the back seat and got 1.5 fingers of slack. All CP needs to do is use common sense,lol. Order all the belts the same size and install them . Case closed:) *** Edited 5/27/2005 5:41:02 PM UTC by Sedusa***

Am I the only person that finds this fingers of slack ridiculous? Of course you're gonna get different amounts every time you ride because everyone has DIFFERENT SIZE fingers. The subjectiveness shouldn't be left up to the crew just because CP is too cheap to put some kind of indicator on the belt at the 2-inch mark.

It's tight for me with a 43 year old 38'' waist.

MrScott

Last year I only tried to ride twice, because I put my back out and my shoulder out trying to get the 2" slack. I had no problem buckeling the belt it was the slack thing I had trouble with. The 2 times I rode everyone was waiting for me to get the slack out and it was embarising. At the time I weighed 230lbs with a 40-42" waist. I am also 6'2" tall

Why are people turning this into another size comparison thread? There's one already in this forum that's got over 9 pages of posts. Use that if you haven't posted in it already.

On another note, I think it's safe to say that if Intamin hasn't responded to this guy yet that I was right stating they wouldn't care.