Halloweekends: How to fix the poor guest experience.

JuggaLotus said:
What was the halloweekends price increase?

I want to say the price was $47.99, increased to $49.99 for Halloweekends. I'd bet they could charge at least $60 for a HW Saturday, possibly more for high demand events like Columbus Day weekend, without significantly hurting attendance.

Let me clarify a few things.

First, my thoughts are not just about "one weekend" as many commentors have stated. Cedar Point now generates 1/3 of it's attendance between Labor Day and Halloween. Folks, that is 1+ million guests. Yet consistently every year we see some of the worst "performance" of the park during this period, no matter what the issue might be. That is a LOT of park guests who leave with bad impressions, don't return because of previous bad impressions, or simply don't spend money inside the park because of the poor operations. I am sorry but I won't apologize for my business beliefs that an entertainment facility should create a flawless guest experience from the first day to the last day of the season. We've beat this thing like a dead horse, we all know the underlying factors why this happens....I am just saying for the new executives who are coming on board at Cedar Fair the time is NOW to start addressing this non-sense. Guests, employees and unit holders deserve better.

Second, no where in my post did I imply Cedar Point should "stop people from coming." What I said is that basic season pass holders, who only pay anywhere from $70 to $100 bucks for a pass that as it stands gives them the full 139 operating days admission is worth much more considering the entertainment value during Halloweekends. If the basic pass is to be "value-driven" then holders should be limited during the season when the park already struggles with operations at and above capacity. In theory, maybe that only comes down to 6 Saturdays during Halloweekends, maybe it is 6 Saturdays during Halloweekends and Saturdays/Sundays during August; whatever the case maybe be, if a season pass holder is that desperate for full access to the park the entire season then that is what the premium Platinum Pass should be reserved for and the price adjusted up accordingly. That is just smart business, both from a guest experience perspective as well as a financial perspective.

I should have added originally that planned "black out" days give Cedar Fair control over the guest experience as well because if, for example, the weather forecast for a typical busy black out day is poor, then certainly it can be lifted. That scenario is a "win-win" for Cedar Fair and for pass holders.

IndyJoker has posted 4 options that are all of merit and gets the point of value+demand not equaling what season pass holders are paying and the impact that has on single day ticketed guests, especially on peak attendance days.

Let's not forget also, it isn't just Cedar Point that struggles with these issues and everything we are speaking about can/should be applied to the entire Cedar Fair portfolio of parks.

In regards to this comment: "As for Mean Streak, CP cant dictate an entire work schedule around one day that has a ton of people and if they did they would be foolish." Yes, Cedar Point can dictate a maintenance work schedule. You don't shut down an attraction (whose capacity is in the 1500+ per hour range with 3 trains, thus pulling those people off the midways) during your busiest business quarter! Certainly Mean Streak can go down from closing day until the early part of the season (May/June) for its required maintenance and be back up operational from late June through October when attendance levels are at their highest. It is exactly the same maintenance program done at Disney, Universal and Six Flags parks with longer operating seasons. No brainer and I hope going forward this type of poor thinking is re-examined.

I honestly don't think the majority of people are aware that Columbus Day weekend any different at CP than any other weekend. Most don't even know it's Columbus Day. Many people I talk to still think the park closes on Labor Day and never heard of HW. I know I need to find a different crowd. Lots of folks just don't know, they saw a good weather forecast and figured let's go.

My teenage son said a number of his school friends told him were going last Saturday for their only trip of the year. He warned them they picked the busiest day of the year. He did see lots of them at CP Saturday.

I think Platinum pass holders should have full access: some of them are coming from out of town, from other Cedar Fair parks. Many of the locals, whether platinum or regular, know from experience or report to avoid the place on beautiful October Saturdays!

Roz

BayernKurve said:
That is a LOT of park guests who leave with bad impressions, don't return because of previous bad impressions, or simply don't spend money inside the park because of the poor operations.

Umm... if the experience is so consistently bad, then how do you explain the park virtually overflowing with guests the other day?

As noted, these types of insanely busy HW Saturdays have been happening for several years. And there's no indication that these so-called "bad impressions" are having any impact on attendance. If anything, it seems that more people show up every year.

I think you're overreacting quite a bit here. That your referencing FB comments only solidifies that opinion.

Cedar Point: Nobody goes there anymore in October. Its too crowded. :)

Other than on Facebook, everyone I have talked to that was there this weekend said that yes, it was crazy busy, but they still had a great time.

And it really is just about Columbus Day weekend. Other than this weekend, the park does not really feel any busier than a hot busy summer weekend day. Busy? Yes. Park on the grass in the causeway busy? No. And it's only Saturdays that are busy as well. Friday evenings are more or less casual semi-crowded, and Sundays it's like a semi-busy spring day; nothing to really write home about.

I just don't get all the over-reaction. It's really, really, busy. I get it.

Perhaps they could make Halloweekends a Platinum-only perk...and not for the other levels of passes. Or is that already a reality? Heck, I would pay an "add-on" fee for Halloweekends too.

Also lets remember this. they have some of the busiest days of the season during this time AND they've lost a lot of the seasonal employees back to school. Sure some are still contracted for the weekends but the park takes a big hit as far as seasonal employees go once they all head back to college. So trying to service an increasingly larger number of guests with fewer than normal (summer time) employees.

Someone stated they shouldn't have a problem finding people in this financial environment, sure lots of people are out of work. BUT from the end of normal daily operation to close isn't a huge amount of time. Now factor in the screening of more people, background checks, training, etc you've lost time and money to get the new group up and running just in time to shut down. I think CP has tried to ride it out and not hire a bunch of replacements because it doesn't make a ton of sense for them financially ESPECIALLY when they continue to fill the park to capacity on those days. So sure some people may not be coming back, but obviously more are still showing up so the negative effect hasn't hurt them much

Clearly a great amount (and probably a vast majority) of what's posted on Facebook is drivel. However, it would also do well to remember that just because a comment is posted there, it is not inherently worthless (just...has a fairly high likelihood of being so). Yes, people seem to create, or at least passively allow, 99% of their misery. But, if a comment left on Facebook describes a situation or issue that is:
A) a logical description of a circumstance we know to be valid
B) fairly easy to solve
C) would benefit both the park and the guest
then I fail to see why it should be dismissed out-of-hand. Yeah, there's a lot of muck to rake through. That's why the marketing people make the big...well, make some bucks.

I don't really have a dog in this fight. I know when the park will be crowded and either avoid going or, if I have to go, at least know what I'm in for. I've seen how the park operates from both the inside and the outside. You're right, most of the time the "perfect storm" of issues that turn Columbus Day into a sea of people aren't present. But just because such a weekend only happens once (or twice, depending on how the 4th or Cleveland Clinic play out), doesn't mean that improvement can't or shouldn't be attempted. Yeah, they can keep doing "what they've always done" and just accept the fact that on one or two weekends a year, the system is gonna get overloaded. OR, they can try some new things and see if that whole mess can not only be avoided, but also render a positive impact on other times. And by positive impact, I mean the guests have a better time and the park makes more money.

I agree with what others have said. We (and the park) know Columbus Day, or whatever weekend, will be mobbed. I guess it's the fact that such occurrences are common knowledge, and still nothing is done (or even really attempted) that makes me scratch my head a little. It's really a matter of Good --> Better --> Best. Just because many people probably managed to have an "okay" time at the park, does that mean that improvement isn't warranted? Or at least given consideration? Isn't "Well, it didn't suck THAT badly" not too far removed from,"People gotta eat"? Sure, in the grand scheme of things, it's a pretty isolated incident. But it's another symptom of the overall mentality at the park that's really holding it back in some ways.

IMO, Cedar Fair was prepared for a crowd around the size of 55000 this weekend, not 70000. The only areas that were lacking in staffing were the sweeps and restroom attendants.

-The park was pretty dirty in some spots, some of the restrooms were not even usable because of the condition.
-The security was VERY lazy this weekend. There was no effort made to enforce the smoking policy and help out with crowd control.
-Even though the park looked pretty rough in some parts, the sweeps were doing a pretty good job; they have to do more since there some holes in ride host staffing.

I think if Cedar Point came up with a more organized way to organize queues, made some parking changes, and filled the holes in staffing, the park would have been ready for a 70000 crowd. Here would be a couple things that would help:

-Have temporary queue available; it doesn't have to even be the metal blockades, maybe some painted lines on the ground or some portable stanchions. This is really needed on Windseeker, maXair, Maverick, and the haunted attractions.

-If CP runs out of room in the main lot, have temporary parking ready, and not on the causeway. Would it be possible to have people park in the Breakers Express lot, then take a shuttle over to the park?

-Let the sweeps worry about park cleanliness; have the security guards work about policy enforcement and crowd control.

Blackout days are a very bad idea in my opinion. We're not season pass holders anymore, but when we were we'd still only be hitting the park a couple times a year (usually 2-3) and one of them was always in October. Taking out that day, if it happens to be the one that works, would not be received well be season pass holders at all.

My question is, how many bad impressions or complaints did they get? If it was say 1000, which seems high that is still only 1% or so of their guests. That really isn't that bad.

Why make drastic policy changes and price increases and a whole assortment of other things when it is pretty obvious that CP is doing a good job of drawing crowds at Halloweekends. They are accomplishing their goals of making money during HW. If on the busiest day of the year you have 1% unhappy then I say you're doing a pretty fantastic job.

Why change what is working just to appease a few when those changes will most likely piss off an equal amount of different people?

No logic in any of it to me.

Everyone's an arm-chair park operator.

If the weather is good, the park will be packed during HalloWeekends. It's popular, so people go. If you go to the zoo and it's packed, you can still see the animals, but you'll be bumped into along the way and may have to wait your turn to see the sea lion. Same concept at CP. You get the experience, but it's just more difficult to get to the attraction you want.

The park will never have a capacity, because nobody has ever set that magic number. Their only goal is attendance numbers. And by golly, they'll get them any way they can, even if it includes pushing the limits of their capabilities.

Staffing is always an issue at this time is because of two things: 1. the removal of the bonus program. It killed off ANY college employees that had an incentive to stay till the end, and 2. Regardless of how "hungry" everyone thinks people are during this economy, they're not going to drive to the middle of nowhere for a temporary, part-time job.

And yes, CP is leaving money on the table. Huzzah!

I chose to go this past Sunday, fully knowing how crowded it was going to be, simply because it was the only date that worked for everyone. You know what? When you're standing outside with your close friends, in weather that great in October, it really doesn't matter if you only ride 10 things.

What was that quote in the sticky topic about a lousy day at the park being better than a good day at work? Yeah.

coolkid said:
IMO, Cedar Fair was prepared for a crowd around the size of 55000 this weekend, not 70000.

Was that the official number? Or your guesstimate? Just curious.

~Rob

Well I heard multiple numbers from the employees. One said as little as 60000 and one said as much as 75000. So the number is somewhere in that range.

I can't believe the people on this post are blaming the record attendance and problems on Platinum Pass Holders? So lets take their perks away from them? Blackout certain days they can go? Make Halloweekends no longer a part of their admission? You've gotta be kidding me! We're the ones that give our money to Cedar Fair almost 7 months in advance. This almost sounds like a certain Tax plan to punish those who are making more money because the others don't have it. Raise the Platinum pass price to help staff the park for larger crowds? Is that how CP should reward those who put up their cash to become patrons next year? Sorry, but I totally disagree with these concepts. Cater to those who show up once or twice a year? Wow, please explain to me how we have become the bad guys. My head is bursting and I need some duct tape!!!

Frito Joe said:
I can't believe the people on this post are blaming the record attendance and problems on Platinum Pass Holders? So lets take their perks away from them? Blackout certain days they can go? Make Halloweekends no longer a part of their admission? You've gotta be kidding me! We're the ones that give our money to Cedar Fair almost 7 months in advance. This almost sounds like a certain Tax plan to punish those who are making more money because the others don't have it. Raise the Platinum pass price to help staff the park for larger crowds? Is that how CP should reward those who put up their cash to become patrons next year? Sorry, but I totally disagree with these concepts. Cater to those who show up once or twice a year? Wow, please explain to me how we have become the bad guys. My head is bursting and I need some duct tape!!!

Are you new to America and only beginning to learn the English language? There is not one comment saying Platinum Pass holders should be blacked out from Halloweekends or other busy days anywhere in this topic. What people have said is that the "Cedar Point only" season passes should have black out dates if they are to remain value-priced, leaving the premium Platinum Pass good for admission any day, at any park, the entire season.

Everyone better get use to the idea, guarantee you it is coming down the pike.

Folks also are not required to buy their Platinum Passes 7 months in advance. You can buy them the week before your first visit. Presumably the reason you are buying them in advance is because they are cheaper.

don't go Columbus day weekend.