Gold Pass - Justification

Wednesday, October 30, 2019 6:53 PM

noggin said:

I can't help but think there's a lot of armchair accounting going on about the Gold Pass. Not to sound like a corporate shill, but Cedar Fair has a legion of accountants and analysts at their disposal.

The pricing on the Gold Pass was made on the basis of the numbers and analysis. I'll wait until next year to see if it is, in fact, a "***show".

Perhaps the powers that be decided to go with volume over 'appropriate' pricing. It's been done before in many other businesses; they make up on volume what they're losing, on higher priced products. Cedar Fair might be pricing the Gold Pass to reach parts of the market.

It's worth remembering, I think, that Cedar Point, unlike Knott's, Dorney, Carowinds, Kings Island, Kings Dominion etc., is not located close to a major market. Even Michigan's Adventure is close to Muskegon and closer to Grand Rapids than Cedar Point is to Cleveland, Detroit, or Toledo.

Cedar Point is destination park, it doesn't have to be right next to a city., FYI Cedar Point is closer to a major city than Dorney. Muskegon is not a major city it has less than 40K population and the difference between distance from Grand Rapids less than 190K population and Cleveland 385K population is10 miles difference. Cleveland is 2x as big and has much more sprawling suburbs. But, back to the point, Cedar Point is a destination park that's why they have Breakers, Express, Castaways, etc... no other park in the chain is close in that regards. There is a reason Cedar point EBIDTA is double every other park in the chain except Knotts. Double EBIDTA means over 65M difference. Six Flags using the volume strategy, their big park suck b/c of it....long ride lines and 1 hr food lines. Also, that model has crashed hence why they rolled out memberships which after the initial early conversions they are finding it harder than thought to convert people from $50 season passes. Once people get used to cheap stuff tit's hard to move them as you have little pricing power which is actually something CF mentioned why they don't want to do memberships. The people only buying $99 passes b/c they are cheap are not staying if it's priced appropriately which is $130 or more. That leads to the **** storm if they keep the under pricing to retain these people and then you're own the road to Six flags or Geuga Lake. Also, hoping price sensitive people spend after getting discount admission is how you get the poor in park spend and per caps of Six Flags. The Gold Pass for the premier park in the chain should not be less than 1/2 the chain including Dorney & WOF which are considered the bottom tier parks in the chain.

+1Loading
Wednesday, October 30, 2019 7:23 PM

I think the $ 99.00 price is because it is the parks 150th anniversary. That is why they extended it to January.

I agree that this Halloweekends was a complete ****storm with "Diarrhea Sharting" and the toilets next to Magnum XL200 nearly exploded.

Cedar Point better invest in more water cups this off season, because the cheap "Gold Pass" people will be going through tons of them.

If you think you saw something horrible at Halloweekends, just wait until you see what happens at the waterpark. That wave pool is going to be so overcrowded, they are going to have to double the amount of chlorine going into the wave pool to kill off the over urination happening.

Seriously though, that waterpark is going to be packed and we haven't even gotten to that ****storm with "Diarrhea Sharting" going on over there.

Since the Platinum Pass holders get in 1/2 hour early into the waterpark, does that mean the Gold Pass holders get in 15 minutes early?

+0
Wednesday, October 30, 2019 8:37 PM

^^ TL:DR - poor people demand free water so they can then urinate it back out in the CP Shores wave pool.

What in the world is wrong with you?

Last edited by Cartwright, Wednesday, October 30, 2019 8:37 PM
+2Loading
Wednesday, October 30, 2019 9:11 PM
Kevinj's avatar

BleauxJays said:

This thing went way off the deep end

Perhaps "off the rails" is better suited?

I have been avoiding this topic like the plague, but as others have noted, some of the comments tossed out about the "Gold Pass People" are so egregious.

I am now one of those people. We are long-time Platinum Pass holders, and while we would have renewed our Platinum Passes again this year, we (like many others) could not pass up the 50% discount. We had no intention of visiting other Cedar Fair parks next year anyway, and while I could segue-way into an argument of questioning the economic reasoning of Cedar Point in offering the Gold Pass at the price-point they have, I simply choose not to, since I have never 1) ran an amusement park, or 2) had the pleasure of sitting in on a meeting with the staff at Cedar Point and their accountants.

The crowd discussion has been exhausted at this point. Halloweekends 2019 was, without a doubt, busier this year than at any point in the park's history. Was the Gold Pass part of the "pie-of-explanation"? Of course, but as others have noted, so was 1) the absolute anomaly of nearly perfect weather every weekend, and 2) the ever-increasing appeal of Halloweekends in general, as well as Halloween activities in general.

Before you rain down the "apologist" comments, I do have my questions. I'm surprised that the Gold Pass comes with parking and early entry of any kind. I was also surprised that my "downgrade renewal" came with a Fast Lane Plus (which we used on closing weekend Friday). I did see the park controlling the "Gold Pass" vs "Platinum Pass" early entry on a Sunday visit earlier this month, but the 30 minute difference just seems so...arbitrary. As others have noted, the only notable difference between the Gold Pass and the twice-as-expensive Platinum Pass is the entry into other parks; a perk that I would assume (but don't know for certain) is a perk used by a relatively small amount of pass holders.

As an observation, I was at the park on Friday night of closing weekend with my family. Was it busy? Yep. Did we have a great time? Somehow...by some miracle...yes. Yes we did.

So did everyone else I recall seeing that night.

Happy Halloween.

Last edited by Kevinj, Wednesday, October 30, 2019 9:28 PM

Promoter of fog.

+3Loading
Wednesday, October 30, 2019 10:09 PM

Now I want someone to do a "Beverly Hillbillies" type of video where a bunch of Platinum Pass holders have to deal with their own disgust and loathing when an upstart group of "they'll never belong" folks dare to enter Cedar Point with Gold Passes.

+1Loading
Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:26 PM
noggin's avatar

CED23 said:

Cedar Point is destination park, it doesn't have to be right next to a city.,

Cedar Point prospered for decades without being a destination park, in part because, I think, they knew -- and know -- their demographics.

Muskegon is not a major city it has less than 40K population and the difference between distance from Grand Rapids less than 190K population and Cleveland 385K population is10 miles difference.

Then you've clearly never lived in small town West Michigan (I live in Shelby, Michigan, population 2,000)..

Muskegon is our local "big city" and Grand Rapids is next nearest. I'm afraid I don't quite get the difference in distance between Grand Rapids and Cleveland is 10 miles. Do you mean distance from an amusement park? Because according to Google Maps, Cedar Point is over an hour away from Cleveland and Toledo.

There is a reason Cedar point EBIDTA is double every other park in the chain except Knotts. Double EBIDTA means over 65M difference.

I defer to discussions upthread about EBIDTA.

The people only buying $99 passes b/c they are cheap are not staying if it's priced appropriately which is $130 or more.

Or maybe they're like me. I have plenty of money in the bank, but I always look for a deal. People buying $99 passes aren't necessarily cheap. I wouldn't pay $130 for a pass, but if I lived closer to Sandusky, $99 would likely tempt me to get a pass.

Also, hoping price sensitive people spend after getting discount admission is how you get the poor in park spend and per caps of Six Flags. The Gold Pass for the premier park in the chain should not be less than 1/2 the chain including Dorney & WOF which are considered the bottom tier parks in the chain.

Why are people buying $99 passes "price sensitive"? Perhaps they're just being thrifty. It's been said that the rich are rich because they look for deals allowing them to keep more of their money.

Who considers Worlds of Fun and Dorney Park the "bottom tier parks"?

I guess the characterization of people buying $99 passes being poor and unwilling to spend money at the park doesn't sit well with me.

Last edited by noggin, Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:28 PM

I'm a Marxist, of the Groucho sort.

+2Loading
Thursday, October 31, 2019 6:45 AM
djDaemon's avatar

noggin said:
Or maybe they're like me. I have plenty of money in the bank, but I always look for a deal. People buying $99 passes aren't necessarily cheap.

...

Why are people buying $99 passes "price sensitive"? Perhaps they're just being thrifty. It's been said that the rich are rich because they look for deals allowing them to keep more of their money.

Not "cheap", but "thrifty"? To-may-to, to-mah-to. Whatever euphemism you prefer, the bottom line is that "let's go after the demographic who least likes to (or is least able to) spend money in the park" is not a sound long-term business strategy.


Brandon

+1Loading
Thursday, October 31, 2019 6:55 AM
vwhoward's avatar

Agreed about the misconception of wealth correlating with which passes people buy. I'm sure that has an appeal with those that are less fortunate than others. But I believe distance from the park is a bigger factor. We only visit a couple times a year....3 and half hours away. So the value of PP aren't worth it to us. But the Gold Passes definitely are. That being said, I find it disheartening that this forum has become a way to slander people without even knowing them. To assume the only people that are buying Gold Passes are poor, degenerate people is crazy. We have plenty of disposable income. It's all about choices and what you prefer to spend your money on. And what the percieved value of said purchase is. It seems like PP enthusiasts on here are the ones with the hate problem. And it's disappointing to read that in post after post.

+2Loading
Thursday, October 31, 2019 7:31 AM

There is a reason Cedar point EBIDTA is double every other park in the chain except Knotts.

What is the source of this info? I haven't seen per park numbers (EBITDA, attendance, etc) released by Cedar Fair. Would be very interesting to see.

+0
Thursday, October 31, 2019 11:03 AM

Between the larger crowds they should get, the apparent lack of a new, major attraction and the insane amount of seats going to FL users, I will probably just skip CP altogether, next year. The only way I will go is if they still offer the Michigan deal for $40-50. While the Gold Pass might be discouraging me from going, since I am willing and able to drive past CP to hit several other parks, I think it was the fair thing for CP to offer since many people are getting in fewer rides due to CP's ridiculous, unlimited FL passes.

A huge mistake they made, in my opinion, was not waiting to convert Mean Streak for the anniversary. That, I would have dealt with the crowds for.

+0
Thursday, October 31, 2019 11:12 AM

noggin said:

Or maybe they're like me. I have plenty of money in the bank, but I always look for a deal. People buying $99 passes aren't necessarily cheap. I wouldn't pay $130 for a pass, but if I lived closer to Sandusky, $99 would likely tempt me to get a pass.

While saying you're not cheap you prove you're cheap. You won't pay $130 which is less than what 3 days at the park including parking would cost buying the online pre buy tickets. Those are $45/day normal without parking and periodically they will run a slightly higher cost one that includes parking.

Why are people buying $99 passes "price sensitive"? Perhaps they're just being thrifty. .

You just proved you're price sensitive in your own statement buy saying you won't by a $130 pass that includes parking.



Who considers Worlds of Fun and Dorney Park the "bottom tier parks"?

.Everyone that has been to a good number of parks. This is a laughable statement by you.



I guess the characterization of people buying $99 passes being poor and unwilling to spend money at the park doesn't sit well with me.

Data backs it up that low cost admissions brings in more low end clientele which makes in park spend and per caps lower. SEAS has the highest season passes they also have the highest in park spend per caps. Six Flags has the lowest cost season passes and have the lowest in park spend per caps. SEAS in park spend per cap is $8+ more.

FY 2018...........Food & Merchandise.........Attendance

SEAS......................$573M........................22.6M

Six Flags................$554M.........................32.M

Low cost admission people don't spend as readily, those are the facts. This is the classic volume vs higher end comparison, SF is a low cost/volume model, SEAS is a lower volume/higher scale.

Last edited by CED23, Thursday, October 31, 2019 12:02 PM
+1Loading
Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:06 PM
Sollybeast's avatar

Dude, after all this, I just noticed you only joined the forum a few days ago. DId you specifically make an account to bellyache about the gold pass and call low income people scum? Because from what I've seen, that's pretty much all you've done.


Proud 5th Liner and CP fan since 1986.

+1Loading
Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:11 PM

Sollybeast said:

Dude, after all this, I just noticed you only joined the forum a few days ago. DId you specifically make an account to bellyache about the gold pass and call low income people scum? Because from what I've seen, that's pretty much all you've done.

Nope, but your insecurity is showing.

+0
Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:13 PM
noggin's avatar

A) I'm not cheap, though I'll admit to being thrifty. I live too far away from the park to consider spending three or more days in Cedar Point. At $99, I can justify buying a Gold Pass for the few trips I'll make to the park.

B} Anyone who has been to a "good number" of parks does have a bit of a skewed perspective, reflecting their personal preferences. That doesn't make Worlds of Fun a "lower tier" park.


I'm a Marxist, of the Groucho sort.

+1Loading
Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:30 PM

noggin said:

A) I'm not cheap, though I'll admit to being thrifty. I live too far away from the park to consider spending three or more days in Cedar Point. At $99, I can justify buying a Gold Pass for the few trips I'll make to the park.

B} Anyone who has been to a "good number" of parks does have a bit of a skewed perspective, reflecting their personal preferences. That doesn't make Worlds of Fun a "lower tier" park.

A) The more you try to say your not cheap you prove it. 2 days at CP on pre bought day tickets is $45 x2 plus $20 parking (pre pay), $25 the gate. That comes to $130 to $140. but you sayyou won't buy a $130 pass while claiming "few trips". Few means more than 1.

B)Having gone to parks gives perspective i've been to every Cedar Fair park, every Six Flags park except Frontier City & Mexico, every SEAS park, the Herschend park, Hershey Park, every Disney in US, every Universal in US, all the major indy parks in the US and a bunch of minor indy parks, Also, an array of foreign parks. In summary with a wide array of experiences WOF is a "lower tier" park and is bottom 3 in the Cedar Fair Chain,

Last edited by CED23, Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:49 PM
+0
Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:41 PM
DSShives's avatar

Maybe you should orientate yourself and just ease your way into the PointBuzz community. Coming in criticizing people for not sharing your beliefs is pretty pitiful. There are many longtime posters on here that have earned respect. You sir, are not there.

And congrats on having been to so many parks, maybe someone will give you a candy bar. Classifying parks as "lower tier" is purely subjective.

Last edited by DSShives, Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:42 PM

Steve Shives
First Cedar Point Visit - 1972
Member: Great Ohio Coaster Club

+3Loading
Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:43 PM
djDaemon's avatar

And don't quote an entire post when it's literally right above your response.


Brandon

+2Loading
Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:45 PM

It's funny when people can't refute facts & don't like then so they find anything to attack but the facts.

+0
Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:49 PM

DSShives said:

Maybe you should orientate yourself and just ease your way into the PointBuzz community. Coming in criticizing people for not sharing your beliefs is pretty pitiful. There are many longtime posters on here that have earned respect. You sir, are not there.

And congrats on having been to so many parks, maybe someone will give you a candy bar. Classifying parks as "lower tier" is purely subjective.

Earned respect in your mind b/c they have subscribed to the same group think. WOF is a lower tier park! Even the WOF locals & fanboys know that.

+0
Thursday, October 31, 2019 2:10 PM

As I said, Cedar Point needs to invest heavily into water cups.

WOF is a lower tier park.

You could probably do all the coasters in that park in less than 1 hour.

Having the Golden Pass means that Cedar Fair will have to pay for more water, toilet paper, water in the bathrooms to flush the toilet etc and they are doing it by offering a cheaper pass to bring in more people into the park that will not spend as much money. It will hurt the bottom line in the end.

As for CED23, he is correct in saying that the majority of the people on this site subscribe to the same group think. Most people on this site get defensive real quickly if you say something negative about Cedar Point.

+1Loading

You must be logged in to post

POP Forums app ©2020, POP World Media, LLC - Terms of Service