Gold Pass - Justification

Monday, October 28, 2019 11:05 AM
djDaemon's avatar

CPVet said:
Halloweekends have been a ****show for the last decade. Assuming that the entire 2020 season will be anything like the last several weekends is being a bit alarmist.

That's revisionist history.

Yeah, HW has been getting busier year-after-year, but has only reached "**** show" status typically on one or two of the Saturdays with nice weather. Yes, the frequency of those "**** show" Saturdays has increased from once or twice a season to probably 3-4 Saturdays, but this year is not a linear continuation of that trend, given that literally every weekend has been bonkers, even despite the poor weather this weekend.

Now, extrapolating anything out of this year is a bit tricky, since in the absence of any data* we don't know if this is an anomaly or a harbinger or things to come. But to suggest that we should look at this HW and not at least raise an eyebrow is kind of silly.

*And here's the thing - we do have some data. We know that the Gold Pass was released this year.


Brandon

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Monday, October 28, 2019 1:50 PM

We know that gold passes were sold. Data in a sense I suppose. But the data we don't have is how much of an impact did gold pass have on crowds this fall. Not sure the park has really good data on that. And we don't have data on how much of an impact gold pass will have on the park next year. Park doesn't either though they do have expectations in terms of all of the other data they have on pass usage, spending habits, marketing research, etc.

There is a lot of speculation about what next year will look like. We just don't know that yet.

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Monday, October 28, 2019 3:00 PM
XS NightClub's avatar

There’s speculation on all future events, plan and spend your money with as educated of a guess as you can.


Sandusky Fan.

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Monday, October 28, 2019 3:04 PM
djDaemon's avatar

GoBucks89 said:

Data in a sense I suppose.

It's data in the literal sense.


Brandon

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Monday, October 28, 2019 3:45 PM

They added new decorations this season. And they had some different employees. All data in the literal sense. But as to what influenced any additional crowds this Halloweekends and by how much we do not know. And yes they started issuing gold passes this year. But we don't know how many. Or how they influenced the number of people at the park in Sept/Oct or what crowds will be like next season as a result. Saying that they started issuing gold passes this year is data doesn't really help with any of those determinations (other than to say gold pass is in the mix which it wouldn't have been had they not started issuing them this year -- just like the new decorations are in the mix as well).

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Monday, October 28, 2019 4:46 PM

Anybody claiming the **** show isn't b/c of Gold Passes hasn't been to the park since August. The last week of August a normal lighter week in August was busy b/c of Gold Passes. Early entry it was the normal platinum numbers/resort guests and a crap load of Gold pass people. The resort gate was suppose to check passes, Platinum 9am and Gold 930am and the Gold pass mob just overwhelmed the attendant. The next day they made a better choke point to check passes. It was the normal numberof platinum/report guests and the mob that filled the resort gate from the check point at Back Beat BBQ to the turnstile was all Gold pass people. When they actually check and cut off at the gates it's the same, the Gold pass mob far out numbers platinum by 2 or 3 or even 4 to one. This is how 2020 will surely be with the Gold pass mob. , The riff raff that couldn't afford a regular pass b/c it was $137 for 2019 with no parking or the platinum which was $197 at its best sale price and $222 later, are the bulk of 2020 Gold pass people. This is Six Flags kind of stuff CP is pulling. b/c they want to claim record attendance for the 150th. They know the pass is under priced as it's cheaper than 6 other parks in the chain and CP is the flagship park. Knotts has the gold pass at $120 for the sale price and CP and Knotts follow similar pricing being he highest in the chain. CP extended the $99 price thru Jan 5th but increased Platinum today.. WTF kind of sense does that make. They are literally trying to swamp the park w/ cheap passes and then hoping to make it up on the park being so miserable they can sell a ton of FL+ and keep the price at a higher level for comparable weeks in previous years

There is a reason SF needs 6M more people to make the same revenue as Cedar Fair, people that are only there b/c it's cheap or have bring a friend(Six Flags constant promo), don't readily spend. SF admit per caps are not only bad b/c of this, but in park spend. It also makes the parks not fun.

Last edited by CED23, Monday, October 28, 2019 5:59 PM
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Monday, October 28, 2019 5:35 PM

As a PP holder who averages two to three times a week (excluding weekends and HW), I can tell you that the uptick in crowds started in August almost immediately after the sales of the GP started. It was very noticeable to me.

Now, if it wasn't because of the new passes, perhaps they started losing summer staff in larger numbers earlier on. I don't know. All I know is that I didn't imagine those crowds, and it was enough for me to call my season done before we even hit the final week of August.

Last edited by Halfpint, Monday, October 28, 2019 6:16 PM
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Monday, October 28, 2019 6:04 PM
3snoH un=l's avatar

We got the Gold passes sometime in September but I didn't make it in to even get my pass made. My husband and youngest teen son went and didn't ride a thing because of lines and then later my oldest teen son and his girlfriend went last Saturday and rode two rides.

I think we'll see next year if the bloom goes off the rose or not with the other Gold pass holders and how much they are going to make it there.


Upside-down Fun House
Kris

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Monday, October 28, 2019 7:54 PM

I suspect the biggest thing CP could do (we will see if they will) is properly staff the place. This means several things:

1. Full capacity for all rides. If this means two trains on Gemini, multiple mine ride trains and multiple employees running the flats as a team so be it. And don't forget the waterpark. They ran the lazy river from July-early August this year. There were ducks swimming in the damn thing much of the summer. If you're gonna sell thousands of these gold passes, open the purse and do better staffing the park. you only have one 150th season, so don't half-ass it.

2. Higher wages, more flexibility for all employees. Although I know I will irritate some by saying this, the hourly employees' attitudes have really detracted from guest experience in recent seasons. This will require a culture change and treating employees as assets and not potential liabilities.

3. On a related note, fewer J-Visas. For every great one, there are a bunch of unintelligible, frightened carpetbaggers. This may not be politically correct, but it is true and it's getting embarrassing.

4. Give the people what they want and take the reigns off in Parking, security, etc. Learn to tolerate transgressions. You're in the entertainment biz.

5. Aside from employees who look like they are doing time and sheer greed, a lot of people on Tripadvisor and similar sites are ticked about maintenance issues. The rides are down all the time.

If you are inviting 100 people to your home for a party, you thoughtfully plan out in advance. CP is about to have a historic season attendancewise. They need to start addressing these valid issues now.


"Forgiveness is almost always easier to obtain than permission."

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Monday, October 28, 2019 8:29 PM
Sollybeast's avatar

CED23 said:

The riff raff that couldn't afford a regular pass b/c it was $137 for 2019 with no parking or the platinum which was $197 at its best sale price and $222 later, are the bulk of 2020 Gold pass people.

I said it before and I'll say it again. The notion that people who can't afford regular/platinum passes are somehow not as good as people who can is super gross, and you should feel bad for making that sort of inference.


Proud 5th Liner and CP fan since 1986.

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Monday, October 28, 2019 8:37 PM
MichaelB's avatar

Sollybeast said:

I said it before and I'll say it again. The notion that people who can't afford regular/platinum passes are somehow not as good as people who can is super gross, and you should feel bad for making that sort of inference.

It's "super gross" to deny factual data.

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Monday, October 28, 2019 9:04 PM
Sollybeast's avatar

Um, I got a gold pass for that very reason. Forgive me for being a little put out at being constantly made out to be some kind of blight on society just because I can't afford a PP. (That and this whole 'poor people are filthy troublemakers' sort of mindset is archaic and smacks of racism, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.)


Proud 5th Liner and CP fan since 1986.

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Monday, October 28, 2019 9:48 PM

cptedsdisciple2 said:

3. On a related note, fewer J-Visas. For every great one, there are a bunch of unintelligible, frightened carpetbaggers. This may not be politically correct, but it is true and it's getting embarrassing.

You made a lot of very good points. But you lost any and all credibility with this one.

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Monday, October 28, 2019 10:37 PM
vwhoward's avatar

Halloweekends have been terrible for years. Anybody saying that's not the case has not been paying attention. And not just on a few nice days. It's popularity has been on the rise for a long time. There are plenty of old threads on here pre-gold pass that have the same complaints about HW. Btw, I did buy a gold pass. And never went to HW because it hasn't been worth it in years. Years.
You were saying, DJ (second post of the forum, 2009)....😉
https://pointbuzz.com/Forums/Topic/cedar-point-halloweekends-crowds
2015....
https://pointbuzz.com/Forums/Topic/omg-the-long-lines-is-this-normal
2011....
https://pointbuzz.com/Forums/Topic/halloweekends-how-to-fix-the-poo...experience
This is from 2007...13 years ago.
https://pointbuzz.com/Forums/Topic/holy-crap-was-that-crowded
And there are more. But I guess this year it's a Gold Pass problem 🤣

Last edited by vwhoward, Monday, October 28, 2019 11:22 PM

Joe
Eat 'em up, Tigers, eat 'em up!

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Tuesday, October 29, 2019 7:05 AM
djDaemon's avatar

You apparently cherry picked the posts you read. If we go all the way back to 2009...

Friday: Pretty Dead

Sunday: Pretty Dead, except Columbus Day Weekend then Summer Saturday Crowded...

...hit the rides hard on Friday night with the lighter crowds...

And that's pretty much the assessment of 2009. If the weather is nice on a Saturday, chances are the park will be mobbed. And if the weather is exceptionally nice on Friday or Sunday, same deal. Now the park is mobbed the whole weekend irrespective of the weather.

Fast-forward to 2015...

It's becoming the norm.

Becoming the norm. Not already is the norm. Not has been the norm since 2009. Becoming the norm. And now in 2019 it is the norm.

I could go on.

The point is that you are confusing exceptional events with a trend. Yes, there were a few cold, dreary days 10 years ago that were busy. And yes, there were a few Fridays and Sundays that were nearly as busy as a Saturday. But remind me again how many times before this year they closed the roads leading to the park?

Frankly, I'm not sure that you're making a strong case by pointing out that those of us who have been observing the park for more than a decade can clearly see this year as an outlier.


Brandon

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Tuesday, October 29, 2019 9:35 AM

The park is out to make record attendance next year, slowly hint at the new 200' GCI coaster going where the dorms was once occupied in 2021, complete with inversions, increase the introductory Gold Pass price to $ 109.00.

It's going to get exciting around here!

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Tuesday, October 29, 2019 12:38 PM
djDaemon's avatar

Sollybeast said:
I said it before and I'll say it again. The notion that people who can't afford regular/platinum passes are somehow not as good as people who can is super gross, and you should feel bad for making that sort of inference.

I can't speak to OP's intent with the comment, but I took it as a poorly-phrased reference to Gold Pass folks, on the average, not having as much disposable income as those who can afford a pass at roughly double the price. Which of course is true.


Brandon

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Tuesday, October 29, 2019 2:07 PM

Sollybeast said:

CED23 said:

The riff raff that couldn't afford a regular pass b/c it was $137 for 2019 with no parking or the platinum which was $197 at its best sale price and $222 later, are the bulk of 2020 Gold pass people.

I said it before and I'll say it again. The notion that people who can't afford regular/platinum passes are somehow not as good as people who can is super gross, and you should feel bad for making that sort of inference.

Facts are facts. Btw, guess which Cedar Fair park has the most major incidences, CGA which has low cost $82 gold passes & the clientele that comes with that.

Bargain gold pass people are not going to spend readily in park b/c the pass itself is a stretch, A platinum holder from the start has produced 2 times the revenue for Cedar Fair. A person buying a gold pass on bargain is not likely spending $99 for dining pass, which is as much as the gold pass costs. Meanwhile platinum is more likely to buy dining for $130 b/c they have the money and they are multi park goers. The same can be said for buying $32 drink plan or Fun Pix with platinum vs gold or season fast lane. I have all of the all season products $1200+ for each person in my party. You're meanwhile lamenting you only got a pass b/cit was $99 and ifit was properly priced at Regular pass level in 2019 you wouldn't have probably bought it at all. PLatinum's are more valuable customer & CP is risking them to attract "bargaineers" that are likely go to swarm the park & make it not nearly as enjoyable as previous years. Cedar Fairs calling card has been not to be the discount chain like Six Flags. That's why they can make the have about the same revenue as SF with 6M less attendance.

Last edited by CED23, Tuesday, October 29, 2019 2:33 PM
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Tuesday, October 29, 2019 3:01 PM

cptedsdisciple2 said:

4. Give the people what they want and take the reigns off in Parking, security, etc. Learn to tolerate transgressions. You're in the entertainment biz.

I’m gonna need some clarification here. With the hordes of people coming in, the LAST thing they should do is become lax on parking or security.


But then again, what do I know?
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Tuesday, October 29, 2019 3:50 PM
Sollybeast's avatar

CED23 said:

Sollybeast said:

CED23 said:

The riff raff that couldn't afford a regular pass b/c it was $137 for 2019 with no parking or the platinum which was $197 at its best sale price and $222 later, are the bulk of 2020 Gold pass people.

I said it before and I'll say it again. The notion that people who can't afford regular/platinum passes are somehow not as good as people who can is super gross, and you should feel bad for making that sort of inference.

Facts are facts. Btw, guess which Cedar Fair park has the most major incidences, CGA which has low cost $82 gold passes & the clientele that comes with that.

Bargain gold pass people are not going to spend readily in park b/c the pass itself is a stretch, A platinum holder from the start has produced 2 times the revenue for Cedar Fair. A person buying a gold pass on bargain is not likely spending $99 for dining pass, which is as much as the gold pass costs. Meanwhile platinum is more likely to buy dining for $130 b/c they have the money and they are multi park goers. The same can be said for buying $32 drink plan or Fun Pix with platinum vs gold or season fast lane. I have all of the all season products $1200+ for each person in my party. You're meanwhile lamenting you only got a pass b/cit was $99 and ifit was properly priced at Regular pass level in 2019 you wouldn't have probably bought it at all. PLatinum's are more valuable customer & CP is risking them to attract "bargaineers" that are likely go to swarm the park & make it not nearly as enjoyable as previous years. Cedar Fairs calling card has been not to be the discount chain like Six Flags. That's why they can make the have about the same revenue as SF with 6M less attendance.

Golly gee, I'm glad you know me so well.

Listen, jack, I got the Gold Pass because it saved me on the trip I was gonna take anyway, and now that I have it I'm seriously thinking about going twice. Which I'm sure the park would LOVE because I usually only go once. I don't drive there myself, so all my spending is done on-point. Which means, because I don't have to worry about park/Shores admission, CP has a change of getting me for hotel, dining/drink passes, snacks, arcade, games, and souvenirs TWICE in a season over the one three-day period that they would have normally. Not a bad deal for them, really.

So tell me again how I'm not an optimal customer and CP won't be making any money off of me because I'm not loaded to the gills.


Proud 5th Liner and CP fan since 1986.

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