Geauga Lake - Serious CP competition?
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With GL set to make the big announcement on Dec. 8th., I'd like to throw out a few questions and get people's opinions on these:
With all the coasters, rebuilding and (thanks to Dave Althoff for this info) the new O.D. Hopkins Chute-The-Shoot ride, will GL have an effect on CP’s attendance next season?
Will the hype surrounding the new SFGL overshadow Millennium Force?
Will anyone west of Sandusky actually drive by CP to go to GL?
Will the new competition from GL increase the rate of development at CP, and force CF to spend more on CP than they would if SFGL didn’t exist?
How effective will CP’s marketing dept. be at overcoming the challenge from the east?
How important is the rumored Boardwalk development in taking market share from GL?
Will CP’s attendance go up, stay the same, or even go down next year, given the increase in competition from GL?
Any other thoughts?
*** This post was edit by Pete on 12/3/99. ***
With all the coasters, rebuilding and (thanks to Dave Althoff for this info) the new O.D. Hopkins Chute-The-Shoot ride, will GL have an effect on CP’s attendance next season?
Will the hype surrounding the new SFGL overshadow Millennium Force?
Will anyone west of Sandusky actually drive by CP to go to GL?
Will the new competition from GL increase the rate of development at CP, and force CF to spend more on CP than they would if SFGL didn’t exist?
How effective will CP’s marketing dept. be at overcoming the challenge from the east?
How important is the rumored Boardwalk development in taking market share from GL?
Will CP’s attendance go up, stay the same, or even go down next year, given the increase in competition from GL?
Any other thoughts?
*** This post was edit by Pete on 12/3/99. ***
Good questions. Assuming that gas doesn't get to $2 per gallon and the economy stays OK my guess is that anyone who decides to try GL will go to CP as well. In future years I think that word of mouth will play an important part in people's decisions. If CP can keep good, friendly employees and a clean, efficient park while GL remains as badly run as it is, then I think CP won't have any problems. I do wonder about the big price hike this year though. It will probably be OK but I think there is good chance that it could come back and bite CP in the ass.
Those are good questions, I think that SFGL will generate a sort of interest in the general public, but unless they get their act together and really focus on the details that make a park really special like Cedar Point, I don't see them really comparing.
Now granted, curiosity may drag me there to check things out (amazing, I live 2 hours away from SFGL (as I have my whole life) and never been to it! I never really had an interest, I always drove the extra 1 1/2 hours directly to Cedar Point!)
Will it take away from the hype of MF? No. From what I have seen, the hype over MF has been much stronger than SFGL.
Will new competition increase the rate of development at CP? I sure do hope so!! I would love to see the rumoured boardwalk project materialize by next year!!
I think that CP's marketing department has a plan in place to overcome the challenge set forth by SFGL. One thing is for sure, they will need to strengthen their advertising campaign, and maybe expand their market area where they advertise. I have noticed over the past few years, I don't see very many CP commercials in Pittsburgh (I regret to say that GL commercials have really outnumbered CP over the past few years in the Pittsburgh Market)
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Neil
Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-1
Now granted, curiosity may drag me there to check things out (amazing, I live 2 hours away from SFGL (as I have my whole life) and never been to it! I never really had an interest, I always drove the extra 1 1/2 hours directly to Cedar Point!)
Will it take away from the hype of MF? No. From what I have seen, the hype over MF has been much stronger than SFGL.
Will new competition increase the rate of development at CP? I sure do hope so!! I would love to see the rumoured boardwalk project materialize by next year!!
I think that CP's marketing department has a plan in place to overcome the challenge set forth by SFGL. One thing is for sure, they will need to strengthen their advertising campaign, and maybe expand their market area where they advertise. I have noticed over the past few years, I don't see very many CP commercials in Pittsburgh (I regret to say that GL commercials have really outnumbered CP over the past few years in the Pittsburgh Market)
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Neil
Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-1
I have a question, do you know if only the SFGL announcement in on the 7th? I am still looking forward to the SFDL announcement, if there is one. I know that living in Buffalo I would rather go to SFDL than drive to cedar point if SFDL were to get all the rumored attractions that Geuga Lake is getting, although I would still go to Cedar Point because the atmosphere and cleanliness are far surperior to any Premeire park.
Something interesting though is I did see a couple of Cedar Point commercials in the Rochester, NY area over the summer, and that is a 6 hour drive. *** This post was edit by Bob Dole on 12/3/99. ***
Something interesting though is I did see a couple of Cedar Point commercials in the Rochester, NY area over the summer, and that is a 6 hour drive. *** This post was edit by Bob Dole on 12/3/99. ***
Believe it or not, my dad saw a Cedar Point commercial here in Kansas on a local television station during prime time. Now being close to WoF, you would think that it would have some WoF stuff in it, but he said that it was about Magnum. I think that CF realizes that the market for CP can grow nationwide, and with the recent acquisitions of the partnership all over the country they find it easier to market CP, Dorney, VF, etc in other markets outside of their basic marketing range.
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Visit Dave and Jen's Cedar Point webpage
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Palms/3997
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Visit Dave and Jen's Cedar Point webpage
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Palms/3997
Good questions Pete... here's my take on things.
I think GL has a strong reputation as a regional park. That said, I don't think people will be driving from Detroit to go to GL (except maybe Kid Rock ;)). Look at Darien Lake... they did very limited media buys in the Cleveland market, but who actually went out there? The TV spots emphasized the "resort" aspect of the park and didn't really touch on the rides, especially Superman. GL has a tough reputation to overcome.
Do tell us, Dave, about the new ride.
The hype for MF is great, and brand recognition high in the Cleveland market. Hell, even my mother knows about the ride. 300 feet is 300 feet, and even the poorest TV spot concerning that spot will get noticed. I don't care what GL has, a 300-foot coaster can only be beat by a taller coaster in the same neighborhood.
I'll be the first to admit, I bought a season pass for GL (I feel so dirty). I'll go from time to time after work or whatever, but I'm still going to go to CP to spend money more. Why? MF, ride capacity and atmosphere. If the new GL is anything like the other SF parks, it still feels too synthetic. CP has a "real" legitimate feel to it that I will always cherish.
CP's development will stay on track. From what I've learned, there is a long range plan that goes at least five to ten years out. The next big thing is already for real, we just don't know what it is.
I have the greatest faith in CP's marketing department. Aside from being some of the coolest people I know, they love their product and believe in it in a way that few people in any job do. They have a lot of experience between them, and they know their stuff.
The alleged boardwalk proposal is of marginal importance from a competitive stand point, I think. First, we can't be sure that it will happen. There will certainly be a great deal of development in that area, there's no doubt about that, but I ??????? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ??????? ? ???? ? ?????? ???? ?????? ? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ? ???????? ??????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ????????? ?? ?????????????????????????????? ????? ?? ?? ????????? ??? ? ????? ??? ?? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ????????? ?? ?? ???? ?? ?? ??? ???? ??? ? ???? ?????? ????????????? ? ??? ??? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ???????? ? ????? ?? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????? ????????? ???????? ??????????? ?? ???????? ??? ???????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???????????????????? ??????? ??????? ???? ?? ? ????? ????? ??????? ????????? ??? ???? ???????????????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ???????? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ? ????? ??????? ????????? ??? ?? ?? ????? ???? ?? ? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ????????? ???? ????? ??? ? ?? ????? ???????? ?? ??????? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?? ????? ??????? ? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?????????? ??????? ?? ????? ???????? ????????? ?????????? ??? ????????? ???? ????? ?? ?? ???? ???? ?? ????? ?? ????? ??????????????????????????????????????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?? ????? ?? ????? ????????? ???? ???????????????????????????????? ?? ??? ?????
I think GL has a strong reputation as a regional park. That said, I don't think people will be driving from Detroit to go to GL (except maybe Kid Rock ;)). Look at Darien Lake... they did very limited media buys in the Cleveland market, but who actually went out there? The TV spots emphasized the "resort" aspect of the park and didn't really touch on the rides, especially Superman. GL has a tough reputation to overcome.
Do tell us, Dave, about the new ride.
The hype for MF is great, and brand recognition high in the Cleveland market. Hell, even my mother knows about the ride. 300 feet is 300 feet, and even the poorest TV spot concerning that spot will get noticed. I don't care what GL has, a 300-foot coaster can only be beat by a taller coaster in the same neighborhood.
I'll be the first to admit, I bought a season pass for GL (I feel so dirty). I'll go from time to time after work or whatever, but I'm still going to go to CP to spend money more. Why? MF, ride capacity and atmosphere. If the new GL is anything like the other SF parks, it still feels too synthetic. CP has a "real" legitimate feel to it that I will always cherish.
CP's development will stay on track. From what I've learned, there is a long range plan that goes at least five to ten years out. The next big thing is already for real, we just don't know what it is.
I have the greatest faith in CP's marketing department. Aside from being some of the coolest people I know, they love their product and believe in it in a way that few people in any job do. They have a lot of experience between them, and they know their stuff.
The alleged boardwalk proposal is of marginal importance from a competitive stand point, I think. First, we can't be sure that it will happen. There will certainly be a great deal of development in that area, there's no doubt about that, but I ??????? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ??????? ? ???? ? ?????? ???? ?????? ? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ? ???????? ??????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ????????? ?? ?????????????????????????????? ????? ?? ?? ????????? ??? ? ????? ??? ?? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ????????? ?? ?? ???? ?? ?? ??? ???? ??? ? ???? ?????? ????????????? ? ??? ??? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ???????? ? ????? ?? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????? ????????? ???????? ??????????? ?? ???????? ??? ???????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???????????????????? ??????? ??????? ???? ?? ? ????? ????? ??????? ????????? ??? ???? ???????????????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ???????? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ? ????? ??????? ????????? ??? ?? ?? ????? ???? ?? ? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ????????? ???? ????? ??? ? ?? ????? ???????? ?? ??????? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?? ????? ??????? ? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?????????? ??????? ?? ????? ???????? ????????? ?????????? ??? ????????? ???? ????? ?? ?? ???? ???? ?? ????? ?? ????? ??????????????????????????????????????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?? ????? ?? ????? ????????? ???? ???????????????????????????????? ?? ??? ?????
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!
GL WILL NOT BE COMPETION TO CP EVER!!!
Six Flags will drum up some interest in GL however it seems in the past Six Flags has dropped some money in a Park and run away for YEARS.
CP IS AN INSTITUTION.
Please stand for this next part!
We the few, the proud, the CPPLACERS, (ok sit back down) and many others have grown up with the annual visits to CP. How many of you remember the second grade essay, "What I did on my summer vacation" being all about CP. I never saw one of these essays being written about GL and I do not believe one year of Major Capital improvements will change that. If after a number of years GL or Six Flags over GL or whatever they are called have CONTINUED to invest major dollars into the park THEN AND ONLY THEN will GL be "competition" to CP.
Until then it will be like going to a minor league baseball game versus a major league game, yes it is still baseball but which brand is better!!!
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I can handle my beer better than Jeff!
GL WILL NOT BE COMPETION TO CP EVER!!!
Six Flags will drum up some interest in GL however it seems in the past Six Flags has dropped some money in a Park and run away for YEARS.
CP IS AN INSTITUTION.
Please stand for this next part!
We the few, the proud, the CPPLACERS, (ok sit back down) and many others have grown up with the annual visits to CP. How many of you remember the second grade essay, "What I did on my summer vacation" being all about CP. I never saw one of these essays being written about GL and I do not believe one year of Major Capital improvements will change that. If after a number of years GL or Six Flags over GL or whatever they are called have CONTINUED to invest major dollars into the park THEN AND ONLY THEN will GL be "competition" to CP.
Until then it will be like going to a minor league baseball game versus a major league game, yes it is still baseball but which brand is better!!!
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I can handle my beer better than Jeff!
Bastard! ;)
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Jeff (who didn't drink girlie American beer for lunch like Tim, but rather the golden brew of Canada)
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
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Jeff (who didn't drink girlie American beer for lunch like Tim, but rather the golden brew of Canada)
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
I'm sorry I missed lunch :(
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Daniel J. Haverlock
'99 Magnum Count: 801
Is it May yet?
www.popworld.com/d
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Daniel J. Haverlock
'99 Magnum Count: 801
Is it May yet?
www.popworld.com/d
At least I CAN sing the National Anthem of the country who's beer I drink
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I can drink REAL BEER (GO USA)not like JEFF.
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I can drink REAL BEER (GO USA)not like JEFF.
Dan,
I'm sorry too!!!
I have what you want...
We will get together SOON!!!
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I can handle my beer better than Jeff!
I'm sorry too!!!
I have what you want...
We will get together SOON!!!
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I can handle my beer better than Jeff!
I'll drink both of you under the table, and still take a spin on Chaos!!!
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Neil
Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-1
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Neil
Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-1
YOU NAME THE TIME... YOU NAME THE PLACE...WE WILL BE THERE!!!!
OTT & Jeff
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We don't drink anything with little umbrellas in the glass.
OTT & Jeff
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We don't drink anything with little umbrellas in the glass.
Okay no fighting
When I go to Cedar Point of Course I go through the turnpike. I know many people from Michigan come to Ohio just for Cedar Point. GL will not have as much business as CP. In Detroit I can say from the people I know, No one is into GL.
When I go to Cedar Point of Course I go through the turnpike. I know many people from Michigan come to Ohio just for Cedar Point. GL will not have as much business as CP. In Detroit I can say from the people I know, No one is into GL.
New Ride? I have heard nothing about this new ride at WoF. I have been to the official site of WlF like every day since the topic of them getting a Boomerang was let loose and they have said nothing about it!!
Dave (who hasnt had any beer since Sunday but could really use some!)(But did have a extra strong Strawberry Mucho Frozen Margarita Wednesday after work)
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Visit Dave and Jen's Cedar Point webpage
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Palms/3997
Dave (who hasnt had any beer since Sunday but could really use some!)(But did have a extra strong Strawberry Mucho Frozen Margarita Wednesday after work)
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Visit Dave and Jen's Cedar Point webpage
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Palms/3997
I know a lot of amusement park fanatics from Pittsburgh who would pass up GL for CP any day of the week!!
OTT - how about my next trip to Cleveland? and I'll make everyone drink Guinness, gets you woozy really quick!!
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Neil
Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-1
OTT - how about my next trip to Cleveland? and I'll make everyone drink Guinness, gets you woozy really quick!!
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Neil
Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero-1
7 of 9,
We'll see you in C-Town next time your paroled from Pittsburgh!(lol)
Seriously, you demonstrate the point I am making.. GL is and will always be a strong regional park. It cannot ever compete with the likes of CP.
GL is a good day trip, CP is a VACATION destination!!
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I can handle my beer better than Jeff!
We'll see you in C-Town next time your paroled from Pittsburgh!(lol)
Seriously, you demonstrate the point I am making.. GL is and will always be a strong regional park. It cannot ever compete with the likes of CP.
GL is a good day trip, CP is a VACATION destination!!
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I can handle my beer better than Jeff!
In Indiana there are about 25 CP commercials for every 1 GL commercial. Most peopleover here haven't even heard on GL.
you guys know nothing about beer until you've had a Xingu...this stuff makes Guiness look like pee-pee. 20 oz bottles of pitch-black beer imported from Brazil....a meal in itself!!! a couple of those and you'll all be beggin' for mercy!! and no, i don't think GL will be competition for CP because...two words now--SIX FLAGS!!! 'nuff said.
i am actually EMBARRASSED that SFGAm is my home park.
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"I think I scrambled my brain!!"
i am actually EMBARRASSED that SFGAm is my home park.
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"I think I scrambled my brain!!"
The new issue of Amusement Business arrived yesterday at the Great Olde Rides sales office. I perused it and noted that in an easy-to-miss section of a column entitled "In the hallways at IAAPA" or something like that, it was mentioned that O. D. Hopkins had agreed to build Geauga Lake a Shoot-The-Chute ride in time for the upcoming season. That is all I know about that.
We already know about the CCI and B&M coasters, for which hardware has already been spotted on-site.
* * *
Geauga Lake is going to get a lot of rubbernecking this season. People who do not go there regularly are going to visit to see what all the commotion is about. Premier is spending some serious money on the park to bring it into the same league as Kings Island. It is an interesting gamble, and it will be interesting to see how the Six Flags treatment works in light of Geauga Lake's classic-park history. If Geauga isn't a classic park anymore, will people still visit? Will we ever see the Rocket Ships ever again?
As for Cedar Point, it looks to me like they should either expect to take a significant attendance *hit* this year just because of the ticket price increase...either that, or they are poised to aggressively discount and promote the heck out of the park this season. That may, in fact, be the plan. Much as I hate them, discounts work wonders for pulling people in the gate.
As for me, I will still spend a lot more time at CP than at GL. It takes me 130 minutes to get to Cedar Point; it's 105 miles, and the traffic is predictably light. Geauga Lake is located in the extreme outer suburbs of Cleveland and Akron, and there is no easy way to get there from here. On top of that, the IR-71 reconstruction project is to begin soon, which will make what is already almost a 3-hour drive even more difficult. Geauga Lake is surrounded by some of the worst traffic engineering in the entire state, which makes a visit to that park an extreme hassle???????? ???? ? ????? ?? ????? ????????????????? ???? ?? ?? ??????????? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??? ????? ??????????????????? ???????? ???
We already know about the CCI and B&M coasters, for which hardware has already been spotted on-site.
* * *
Geauga Lake is going to get a lot of rubbernecking this season. People who do not go there regularly are going to visit to see what all the commotion is about. Premier is spending some serious money on the park to bring it into the same league as Kings Island. It is an interesting gamble, and it will be interesting to see how the Six Flags treatment works in light of Geauga Lake's classic-park history. If Geauga isn't a classic park anymore, will people still visit? Will we ever see the Rocket Ships ever again?
As for Cedar Point, it looks to me like they should either expect to take a significant attendance *hit* this year just because of the ticket price increase...either that, or they are poised to aggressively discount and promote the heck out of the park this season. That may, in fact, be the plan. Much as I hate them, discounts work wonders for pulling people in the gate.
As for me, I will still spend a lot more time at CP than at GL. It takes me 130 minutes to get to Cedar Point; it's 105 miles, and the traffic is predictably light. Geauga Lake is located in the extreme outer suburbs of Cleveland and Akron, and there is no easy way to get there from here. On top of that, the IR-71 reconstruction project is to begin soon, which will make what is already almost a 3-hour drive even more difficult. Geauga Lake is surrounded by some of the worst traffic engineering in the entire state, which makes a visit to that park an extreme hassle???????? ???? ? ????? ?? ????? ????????????????? ???? ?? ?? ??????????? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??? ????? ??????????????????? ???????? ???
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