Future expansion
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If I remember, Iron Dragon and Mantis both sit over water. So who says they DON'T do it?
Oh and Mine Ride is over water also!! *** This post was edited by Lake54321 on 3/12/2001. ***
Oh and Mine Ride is over water also!! *** This post was edited by Lake54321 on 3/12/2001. ***
Joe E steps in from the sidelines
1. Lagoons and Lake Erie are about as opposite as you can get. If a storm kicks up Lake Erie, it can kill people but in a lagoon the frogs are even safe (with the exception of lightning). Cedar point I believe drains their lagoons during winder to prevent damage to the coaster's structure's from the freezing and refreezing of water.
2. Building over the lake is expensive, compared to the lagoons which are drained during construction. Footers underwater cost tons more $$$ to create than on dry land.
3. Maintaining structures on the lake is expensive and difficult. Even piers themselves are difficult to maintain.
Possible, yes. Practical no. Just look how many structures are out on the Lake, maybe a bridge or two in safe harbors. Now I am not and expert, just and Architect/Meteorolgist/ Mechanical Engineer wannabe so that makes me nothing.
*** This post was edited by Joe E. on 3/12/2001. ***
1. Lagoons and Lake Erie are about as opposite as you can get. If a storm kicks up Lake Erie, it can kill people but in a lagoon the frogs are even safe (with the exception of lightning). Cedar point I believe drains their lagoons during winder to prevent damage to the coaster's structure's from the freezing and refreezing of water.
2. Building over the lake is expensive, compared to the lagoons which are drained during construction. Footers underwater cost tons more $$$ to create than on dry land.
3. Maintaining structures on the lake is expensive and difficult. Even piers themselves are difficult to maintain.
Possible, yes. Practical no. Just look how many structures are out on the Lake, maybe a bridge or two in safe harbors. Now I am not and expert, just and Architect/Meteorolgist/ Mechanical Engineer wannabe so that makes me nothing.
*** This post was edited by Joe E. on 3/12/2001. ***
Stablility... the water that ID and TCFKAB are built over are man made controlled bodies of water. The lever is fairly controlled..
They'd have no control going out over the water.. waves and such. I can imagine it viloates a few dozen building code violations too.
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MF 2000 - 269 laps
MF 2001 - ???????
They'd have no control going out over the water.. waves and such. I can imagine it viloates a few dozen building code violations too.
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MF 2000 - 269 laps
MF 2001 - ???????
Does anyone remember the condition of the beach walk during the '98 season? That's all I have to say about that...
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
I wish I could have summed it up like that. You needed a ATV to get past the walk that year.
This leads me more to thinking about if Cedar Point will maintain thier Boardwalk. If it's far enough away from the water, it should not be a problem.
This leads me more to thinking about if Cedar Point will maintain thier Boardwalk. If it's far enough away from the water, it should not be a problem.
You know, people keep saying that you can't build into the lake.
This is Lake Erie. Yes, it's one of the world's larger lakes. Still, it's tides are measured in inches.
Coasters have been built on piers and on risers going out into *oceans*. The Cyclone Racer extended into the Pacific Ocean, which has much more potential for damage than Lake Erie does.
*** This post was edited by Bill on 3/14/2001. ***
This is Lake Erie. Yes, it's one of the world's larger lakes. Still, it's tides are measured in inches.
Coasters have been built on piers and on risers going out into *oceans*. The Cyclone Racer extended into the Pacific Ocean, which has much more potential for damage than Lake Erie does.
*** This post was edited by Bill on 3/14/2001. ***
Lake Erie is also the shallowest of the Great Lakes, and when a storm kicks up it creates tremendous waves (experts say the biggest of all the Great Lakes). Being on a boat during an Erie Strom is pure hell.
The Ocean does not freeze up, at least at the locations mentioned. Freezing, Thawing, and refreezing is death to structures probably the main culprit for deterioration of piers out here on the lake.
About the only thing an Ocean can do that Lake Erie cannot is a tropical storm. A damaging one is lucky to come every couple of years. Plus these are one hit wonders and do not come year round. The shallow water of the lake will freeze every year, meaning water will get inside the material, expand, and there you have it.
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Joe E
*** This post was edited by Joe E. on 3/14/2001. ***
The Ocean does not freeze up, at least at the locations mentioned. Freezing, Thawing, and refreezing is death to structures probably the main culprit for deterioration of piers out here on the lake.
About the only thing an Ocean can do that Lake Erie cannot is a tropical storm. A damaging one is lucky to come every couple of years. Plus these are one hit wonders and do not come year round. The shallow water of the lake will freeze every year, meaning water will get inside the material, expand, and there you have it.
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Joe E
*** This post was edited by Joe E. on 3/14/2001. ***
One more point that I would like to stress. You sure can build on the Lake like I said in my first post. It's just expensive and difficult to mantain.
Still, it's tides are measured in inches.
The tides aren't what you need to worry about (well, most years anyway, 97/98 being a recent exception). Like Joe said, it's about the ice. As shallow as the lake is, in particular about the first hundred or two yards out, it can freeze nearly solid. That's why you don't leave your boat in the water for winter, it would be crushed!
Now consider your concrete footers being moved about by the ice in several thaw cycles each winter. When you consider the margin for error on placing footers for steel rides is a quarter-inch, that doesn't allow much room for movement.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
The tides aren't what you need to worry about (well, most years anyway, 97/98 being a recent exception). Like Joe said, it's about the ice. As shallow as the lake is, in particular about the first hundred or two yards out, it can freeze nearly solid. That's why you don't leave your boat in the water for winter, it would be crushed!
Now consider your concrete footers being moved about by the ice in several thaw cycles each winter. When you consider the margin for error on placing footers for steel rides is a quarter-inch, that doesn't allow much room for movement.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
No, but I'd look at it the same way I look at bridge construction. I go to school on a peninsula surrounded by Lake Superior, which knows something about freezing, often to a depth of a couple of feet.
The Mackinac Bridge, at a couple of miles long, has a narrow enough tolerance. The got around the ice flows by making *deep* footers, and surrounding them with a hull-shaped concrete ring which has the same effect as an ice-breaker. As the ice rises into the ridge, it gets parted.
Up in Houghton, we have a lift-bridge that has to stay in position or else the railroad on the lower level won't align. They too use the concrete buffer to prevent ice damage.
I suspect it's quite doable. If nothing else, you could build a solid-fill pier and build on top of it.
The Mackinac Bridge, at a couple of miles long, has a narrow enough tolerance. The got around the ice flows by making *deep* footers, and surrounding them with a hull-shaped concrete ring which has the same effect as an ice-breaker. As the ice rises into the ridge, it gets parted.
Up in Houghton, we have a lift-bridge that has to stay in position or else the railroad on the lower level won't align. They too use the concrete buffer to prevent ice damage.
I suspect it's quite doable. If nothing else, you could build a solid-fill pier and build on top of it.
Footers for a bridge are huge in comparison, especially for the Mackinac Bridge. That's like comparing a doll house to the house you live in. Coaster footers are a couple of feet wide compared to more than a hundred feet wide on a suspension bridge. Also, suspension bridges are supposed to move and be flexible.
What I'm getting at here is that it's not practical, not cost-efficient, probably not legal and utterly pointless to build into the lake. They have plenty of room on solid land.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
What I'm getting at here is that it's not practical, not cost-efficient, probably not legal and utterly pointless to build into the lake. They have plenty of room on solid land.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
I know CP is gonna build a floating parking lot out in the lake ;)
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just ~50~ miles away from the greatest amusement park in the world!!
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just ~50~ miles away from the greatest amusement park in the world!!
So than you could build out into the lake if the coaster were to sit on a huge footer, or two (conceptually) althought that would be prohibitavely expensive.
*** This post was edited by Bill Bradley on 3/19/2001. ***
>>Up in Houghton, we have a lift-bridge that has to stay in position or else the railroad on the lower level won't align. They too use the concrete buffer to prevent ice damage.
A train has not crossed that bridge in years, early to mid 80's I think. The track is torn out north of L'aunc (sp). They just lock it at the railroad level to alow small boats to pass under.
*** This post was edited by kneemeister on 3/19/2001. ***
A train has not crossed that bridge in years, early to mid 80's I think. The track is torn out north of L'aunc (sp). They just lock it at the railroad level to alow small boats to pass under.
*** This post was edited by kneemeister on 3/19/2001. ***
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