Funtime Group says Wind Seeker headed to Cedar Point, threatens legal action

Specktacular612 said:
I don't know if I have anything but DK said that he was not commenting about the lawsuit and that the announcement will still come next Tuesday (all from the Sandusky Register). Maybe (just maybe) they aren't planning a StarFlyer but something else (like the woodie some people want). Just a thought but it may be nothing. :)

I wouldn't comment on a pending legal case either, not to mention he probably wasn't too happy to hear that the ride had been leaked....

Is the facebook page for cedar point locked by making new user posts for anyone else? I can comment on existing posts, but not making a new wall post.

Whatever happens between now and next Tuesday, I really hope Cedar Fair don't get sued.

Jason Hammond said:

crazy horse said:
For example, Evil Knievel at six flags St Louis cost 7 million to build. How much does this new ride cost? Or how much did shoot the rapids cost?

I'm not sure the cost would have been dramatically different. But, Evil was an exact copy of another GCI over seas. So, there would likely have been a substantial engineering savings. This is one of the reasons Six Flags used GCI. Six Flags was looking for a very fast turn around on a ride (less than a year IIRC) GCI was the only company contacted that had a design ready that would fit on the available plot of land.

STR was $10M I believe. But, there was likely a lot more work required to prep the site for the rides use.

Not sure what your point is? Eather way you look at it, str cost more than a coaster would. I can use another example. The voyage at holiday world only cost 8.5 million.

I was making the case that a coaster can cost as much as a water ride or a new flat ride like a star flyer because Jeff said that coasters cost a more than other rides.

2011 skyline
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz241/djcarlotta/cp2011.jpg

crazy horse said:[/i

Not sure what your point is? Eather way you look at it, str cost more than a coaster would. I can use another example. The voyage at holiday world only cost 8.5 million.

Actually, Voyage was a $6.5 million investment.

crazy horse said:
Not sure what your point is?

I didn't really have one. I was just pointing out a few facts that were pertinent to that particular ride you chose as an example.

The fact that Voyage was 8.5M is astounding to me. Though I wonder if being in such a rural area brings with it much cheaper labor costs.

One issue that generally increases the cost of attractions at CP is the water table. Digging deeper for footers means digging deeper in the pocket book for labor and materials. I also know that there are unions involved so that could be another increase in costs if local labor is required to be the card carrying type.

Not to mention, a 8 or 10 million dollar coaster is going to be a cookie cutter pre-fab type coaster. Everything Cedar Point has done in the past decade or so has been a bit bigger or a bit faster or a bit different than anyone else has. It's one of the things I like about CP, they do try to be cutting edge. A 400 foot Windseeker / Starflyer will fit that category. I'm a coaster junkie as much as anyone else. It's the main reason I go to any park. I have just resigned myself to the fact that I'll have to wait another year or two to ride a new one at CP, and just continue to enjoy the rides I've enjoyed all summer long. MF and Raptor and Mean Streak and Gemini and Magnum and MaXair and Skyhawk will still be there next year, and the next year, etc., so I'll be good :)

This article makes no sense. They say they are angry at Mondial for "copying" their ride, and then they say they are going after CP, and not Mondial. How do you have a case against CP?

If I was CP, I would sue Funtime for ruining the announcement.

crazy horse said:
Cedarpoint made huge statements when magnum, millennium, dragster were built. Everyone wanted to beat them.

And who is everyone? 200+ rides didn't come in quantity for years. At 300, there was one that opened weeks later in Japan, and another didn't open until 10 years later (from the same company). At 400, it took two years.

The silly records are good for a year, but given the limited and regional scope of the audience, the park knows very well that the marketing value of these aren't particularly valuable over less record setting rides like Maverick or maXair. The park still hasn't beat the attendance record it set when Raptor opened, and the seasons are a hell of a lot longer than they were back then.

There was no war. Enthusiast imagination.

coolkid2345 said:

Actually, Voyage was a $6.5 million investment.

Nope....it was 8.5 as seen here...

http://www.rcdb.com/3231.htm

Chase gilbert said...

Not to mention, a 8 or 10 million dollar coaster is going to be a cookie cutter pre-fab type coaster. Everything Cedar Point has done in the past decade or so has been a bit bigger or a bit faster or a bit different than anyone else has. It's one of the things I like about CP, they do try to be cutting edge.

The voyage is far from being cookie cutter. You also have to remember that bigger is not always better when it comes to coasters. I have more fun on ravine flyer at waldameer, than I do on most the coasters at cedarpoint.

Cedarpoint has cookie cutter coasters as well, but not that it matters. Just look at wicked twister, raptor, and woodstock express.

Raptor is cookie cutter? There were only two B&M inverters before it, and it's not even remotely similar. What was even the next one to include a cobra roll, Alpengeist?

Captain Hawkeye said:

Yes, STR represents a level of quality never seen before in log flumes--ALL of the old flumes were/are technologically, how should one say this, ummm, functional.

Now the new rides feature, not coaster wars, but legal battles

Haha. My quality over quantity statement was more so a desire than reality. Also, I think "war" is over emphasized and definitely dramatized by some enthusiasts, but there definitely was undeniable competition in the early 2000's between parks.

Of course there have been 'coaster wars', if defined as friendly, competitive acts of one-upmanship over the years, especially between the years of, say 1976 and 2000. Once Revolution broke the cherry for the modern inversion, parks were falling all over themselves to put in corkscrews, loopers, shuttles, etc., with ever (it seemed) increasing numbers of inversions. I remember Geauga Lake prided itself on being the first park with two (count 'em, two) inverting coasters.

For a while there, it seemed like KI and CP were having quite the tit-for-tat across the state (and never mind they didn't have much in the way of overlapping markets).

Remember that at their hearts, amusement parks are nothing more than glorified carnivals and fairs. To this day, park operators still have something of the carnival barker in them, shrilly calling their would-be customers to come see the biggest, the scariest, the fastest, the most incredible, death-defying attractions to be found on the planet... To suggest otherwise is to gloss over a very human -- and therefore, interesting and entertaining -- aspect of the industry.

The threat of a lawsuit sounds more like Funtime's hope/wish/prayer that Cedar Fair will toss a little settlement money their way as a consolation prize. I doubt a lawsuit will ever be filed.

But if something IS filed, and Cedar Fair is the only defendant, then I'd expect a claim that Cedar Fair divulged proprietary details of Funtime's design that allowed Mondial to successfully build the ride. You need an angle like that for scenarios where Cedar Fair gets sued and Mondial doesn't.

Ensign Smith said:
...To this day, park operators still have something of the carnival barker in them, shrilly calling their would-be customers to come see the biggest, the scariest, the fastest, the most incredible, death-defying attractions to be found on the planet...

Good point!!

I find the so-called "coaster wars" to be more of a light-hearted competetion between parks rather than a full on war. Cedar Point may love their title as the "Roller Coaster Capital"... but they're not going to put themselves into a giant hole financially to keep the record, and I doubt they'll remove that title even if Six Flags tops them. Plus, CP could then say they have the most coasters for thrill seekers (rather than children), or best quality/assortment.

I appreciate that Cedar Point is more focused on building a full park experience rather than catering only to one crowd. I would LOVE a new woodie, but I think the WindSeeker will be a good addition to the park (as long as it works). Now they need a good dark ride or two... maybe boo blasters for the kiddos and something more thrilling for the adults. :)

Ensign Smith said:
Of course there have been 'coaster wars', if defined as friendly, competitive acts of one-upmanship over the years, especially between the years of, say 1976 and 2000. Once Revolution broke the cherry for the modern inversion, parks were falling all over themselves to put in corkscrews, loopers, shuttles, etc., with ever (it seemed) increasing numbers of inversions. I remember Geauga Lake prided itself on being the first park with two (count 'em, two) inverting coasters.

I think this is true in a sense, but I don't think Geauga Lake added Double Loop just to 'beat' anyone. They did it because they knew adding that type of ride would be profitable.

This is why I also disagree with the "coaster wars" term. A lot of companies debuted new coaster types which became really successful (pretty much anything by B&M, Premier launchers, etc). Because those coasters were profitable, many parks added them. The marketing teams did the rest, making it "seem" like there was a war, when really it was just the availability of rides that would draw people.

As we know, Six Flags took this availability a little too far.

Jeff said:
Raptor is cookie cutter? There were only two B&M inverters before it, and it's not even remotely similar. What was even the next one to include a cobra roll, Alpengeist?

Really?

Then what is this?

http://www.rcdb.com/1186.htm?p=11366

The cobra roll was around for a few years before raptor was built. Raptor was the first inverted coaster to use it. I wouldent call it a "new" element. Look at the list of coasters that have the cobra roll....Look at all of them that had it before raptor was even a thought. Kumba at bush gardens had a cobra roll the year before raptor was built. There were cobra rolls around since 1984.

Here is kumbas cobra roll..

http://www.rcdb.com/94.htm?p=169

Here is the list of coasters that have cobra rolls. Look at all the coasters that had the element before raptor.

http://www.rcdb.com/r.htm?ot=2&el=8873&page=1

Even Kinzel has said there was a coaster wars. Regardles weather you want to believe it or not, there was. Even "you" have said in the past that there were coaster wars, and that they are now over.

Oh yea, and even cedarpoint knows about the coaster wars. Look here...

http://travel.latimes.com/daily-deal-blog/index.php/coaster-wars-ii-magi-1611/

This quote may be of interest for some people on this site..

“We have 17,” said Cedar Point’s Innes. “Being the roller coaster capital is very important to us.”

Magic Mountain took the trophy from Cedar Point around the turn of the millennium after adding a coaster a year during a building binge that stretched from 1997 to 2003.

Cedar Point doesn’t intend to relinquish the laurel again without a fight.

“We plan to expand,” said Innes. “I think it’s safe to say there are coasters in our future, but we don’t have a timetable.”

I guess it depends on how you define that "trophy".

Building coasters, but not operating them, isn't how I would think you could "win".

Being the coaster capital means having the best collection of coasters, not just the most. And I don't see anything in Robin's statements that lead me to believe that the park is just going for the most without going for quality or operability.

I have no problem with Cedar Point adding coasters. We could use a dive machine, flyer, or for petes sake, a quality woodie like a prowler. Maybe even a more-modern woodie like a Diamondback.

I do have a problem with keeping Mean Streak and DT and adding an onslaught of kiddie coasters just for a stupid record.

How do the conversations go? "There is a decent chance Mean Streak is going to result in a lawsuit and trends tell us we need a quality woodie, but... lets keep Mean Streak and add two kiddie coasters to keep the record!!!"