Frontier Lift

It works in FF as well, but apparently not in Opera.

I remember riding the Frontier Lift, but obviously not in detail since that was a long time ago. But, just by looking at a map, it looks like it would have needed a turn. I forget exactly where the old station was, but I know it was near the Iron Dragon area. By drawing a rudimentary straight line from the Frontier Lift building, it looks like the other station would have been where Coasters is now if it was straight. I'm pretty sure that's not where it was.

So, I guess my question is - wasn't there a turn on Millennium Island?

I remember it being a straight shot. The station was in the exact same place as the ID station/que area. I have some pictures that were taken from the ride, but I can't find them on my hard drive. I will keep searching.

halltd said:
So, I guess my question is - wasn't there a turn on Millennium Island?

No there was not. I was intrigued by turns on a couple of ski lifts I rode back them and I would have remembered it if there was.

I'm pretty sure there are new technologies out there that allow for turns. The new Vertigo coaster in Belgium is based on ski-lift/gondola technology and it turns all over the place. So, it can be done. Is it worth the money, I doubt CP will think so. I think it would be fun though. :)

Frontier Lift was a straight shot from the Main Midway, over the island, to Frontier Town. One reason for its removal was for Iron Dragon. The other reason: in case of break down, they couldn't get fire trucks and ladders onto the island (which by the way has snakes on it). Although, their is a VW engine that can be used to operate the ride in case of power failure to get the cabins off the cable.

So, is the old station near the main midway the current station for Iron Dragon? They look very similar to me.

Iron Dragon's station is a brand new building for the coaster. The old lift building was demolished.

The old station was demolished to make room for Iron Dragon.

halltd said:
I'm pretty sure there are new technologies out there that allow for turns. The new Vertigo coaster in Belgium is based on ski-lift/gondola technology and it turns all over the place. So, it can be done. Is it worth the money, I doubt CP will think so. I think it would be fun though. :)

Woah...just checked out Vertigo at rcdb...from what's there though, it's kind of confusing as to what exactly the ride does? I know that may sound like a stupid question, but does anybody know if there are any other examples of this kind of ride?

I think that's the first of its kind. Here's a pretty good article with photos and descriptions of the ride. You can see the technology easier in these pics.

halltd said:
I'm pretty sure there are new technologies out there that allow for turns. The new Vertigo coaster in Belgium is based on ski-lift/gondola technology and it turns all over the place. So, it can be done. Is it worth the money, I doubt CP will think so. I think it would be fun though. :)

Having just looked at the web page about it someone referenced, about the only thing that has in common with a ski gondola is the manufacturer. It appears the "cable" it runs on is rigid (hence the turns), not a moving steel rope (ropeway) as the Frontier Lift had.

While turns have been done on a ropeway (for years when you include the bullwheels on fixed grip lifts), AFAIK all turns with the grip on the rope must be in the same direction (away from the hangar) as otherwise the sheaves turning the rope and the grip will interfere with each other. While I am aware of fixed grip lifts with small turns, I am not aware of any detachable lift that makes a turn with the carrier on the rope.

halltd said:
I think that's the first of its kind. Here's a pretty good article with photos and descriptions of the ride. You can see the technology easier in these pics.

Thanks for the link. I have to agree with Larry that I don't see much in common between this and the lifts at CP.

So just because it's not the exact same ride means it's not possible? I don't buy that. The coolest ride technologies exist when a unique requirement spawns the redesign of an existing technology. Take Top Thrill Dragster for instance. The goal was to produce a ride that could launch the trains in a short distance at very high speeds. They invented the cable launch system because magnetic launches were too expensive, required longer launch tracks and required a ton of power. So, had they just been like, "this isn't possible because it's never been done before", then we wouldn't have any of the awesome rocket coasters we do today.

If CP really wanted to put an overhead transport system in that involved curves, they could do it. Would someone probably need to come up with a unique technology to make this happen? Yeah. But, could it be done? Most certainly.

Halltd, of course if they wanted an "overhead transport system" with curves, they could do it. It's trivial to do with rigid track. But a ropeway, be definition of what rope is, is non-rigid. And to somehow make non-rigid rope behave as if it's rigid required not a "redesign of existing technology" but a repeal of the laws of physics. So if they wanted to do it, they would. But why would they do it with a ropeway when more suitable technologies exist?

Wanting something doesn't always make it possible. Some things really are impossible. For instance, the total energy of a roller coaster train (kinetic plus potential) is always decreasing throughout the run (unless some external device adds more energy). Therefore, if two hills reach their bottom at the same altitude, the train must be going slower at the bottom of the second one and no "redesign of existing technology" will change that. And if a train starts from a stop at the top of a hill, it can never get higher than that or, as there's always some friction, even return to that height.

halltd said:
So just because it's not the exact same ride means it's not possible? I don't buy that. The coolest ride technologies exist when a unique requirement spawns the redesign of an existing technology. Take Top Thrill Dragster for instance. The goal was to produce a ride that could launch the trains in a short distance at very high speeds. They invented the cable launch system because magnetic launches were too expensive, required longer launch tracks and required a ton of power. So, had they just been like, "this isn't possible because it's never been done before", then we wouldn't have any of the awesome rocket coasters we do today.

If CP really wanted to put an overhead transport system in that involved curves, they could do it. Would someone probably need to come up with a unique technology to make this happen? Yeah. But, could it be done? Most certainly.

I didn't say it wasn't possible...all I was saying is that I don't see a lot in common (except for something hanging from a single "pole") between the two types of rides.

The two important similarities are the ride is made by a company traditionally known for ski resort aerial ropeways. So, that's their forte. The other similarity is the guest's experience on the ride. For all intents and purposes, most guests would still consider that ride a "ski lift" even though technically it is not. But, the experience of hanging below a "cable" would be the same for a guest. So, if you can't install a traditional aerial ropeway, there are plenty of other ways you can adapt the technology to provide a similar experience to your guests.

Also, I don't believe Doppelmayr "repealed the laws of physics" to come up with Vertigo. They used their expertise and background in aerial ropeway systems to come up with a new coaster experience by adapting technologies they're used to working to suit a new application.

Those were the good old days!

I too miss the Frontier Lift. I was a member of the lift crew in '80. We certainly earned our small wages on that ride. It was a great way to build the muscles by catching the cabins as they came off of the cable in the stations.

If we worked the FT station, we were able to ride to work from the main midway. The part that really sucked was closing the FT station. We always had to walk back on the trail after closing. Most crews were able to catch the last train.

Back then all crews were either completely male or female. Rides with similar sized crews teamed up for socializing. That summer our sister crew was the Mine Ride. I have fond memories of all of the fun parties we had together. Two of my closest friends met that summer. He was on the lift with me, and she was on the Mine Ride. They are celebrating their 20th wedding aniversary this summer.

superdav said:
Those were the good old days!

I too miss the Frontier Lift. I was a member of the lift crew in '80. We certainly earned our small wages on that ride. It was a great way to build the muscles by catching the cabins as they came off of the cable in the stations.

If we worked the FT station, we were able to ride to work from the main midway. The part that really sucked was closing the FT station. We always had to walk back on the trail after closing. Most crews were able to catch the last train.

Back then all crews were either completely male or female. Rides with similar sized crews teamed up for socializing. That summer our sister crew was the Mine Ride. I have fond memories of all of the fun parties we had together. Two of my closest friends met that summer. He was on the lift with me, and she was on the Mine Ride. They are celebrating their 20th wedding aniversary this summer.

Great story, superdav!!! *** Edited 8/26/2007 12:34:06 AM UTC by Jason Heminger***

I found some old photos of the Frontier Lift where ID is today.

http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee76/spitnsunshine/img495.jpg

The station is on the left of this picture behind the tree

http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee76/spitnsunshine/img831.jpg
*** Edited 9/1/2007 12:58:54 AM UTC by Spit***