FOX NEWS CHANNEL

If we were talking about going purely horizontal, I believeCP_bound would be correct. But once you're talking about vertical speed change, the size of the earth makes the mass of the anything else negligible. It's always gonna be -9.80 m/s^2 unless you're in Antarctica.

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Joshua Wilcox

Newtonian physics is both simple and important. Why can't it be taught starting in elementary school?

Sigh.

Trust me, if MF would only have 8 cars, then the train would not be traveling as fast as it does towards the end of the ride. It has more inertia so it takes more force to slow it down. The trade off is that it take more energy to get it to move in the first place. Inertia in the case of multi-ton trains far outweigh friction. Granted Dragster's cars aren't nearly as heavy as MF's, but there would still be a noticeable difference in speed.

Another example is with the Intamin impulses. The original designs have just as must unsupported track as WT, but WT has an extra car so it travels up the tower more. This must have been overlooked by Intamin (or they didn't think it would make a difference), because of the cracking it experienced last year.

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...and the most anticipated event of summer 2003 is...

The Matrix: Reloaded!

CP_Bound, I never thought about that. So they're testing with only 4 cars (hence, less inertia) to ensure a reduced possibility of rollbacks when all 5 cars are on. I posted your explaination in the "??? Capacity" thread where this was being discussed.

I guess I'll have to keep tuned to FOX News Channel to check out their testing footage.

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Launching in T-minus 10, 9, 8 days...
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I would rather hear synthesizers sing than hear rappers talk.

*** This post was edited by Kevin Lehman 4/27/2003 5:43:47 AM ***

Sorry about this completely stupid question but i don't remember reading it anywhere, when is Media Day??? I'm sure that this has been answered before but i can't find it, thanks. :)

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Can't wait to be at the Point!

Thursday May 1

CP_bound, when you talk about Millennium Force and it's inertia, you are dealing with forces in the horizontal plane. In that realm, you are correct. Once you change to talking about the vertical deceleration, it's all different.

Your original post says "You guys also have to remember that they are testing the trains with one less car. With the extra car added, the speed of the launch will be the same, but the inertia of the train will be higher, making to go over faster."

If the two trains both have the same velocity, the mass is entirely irrelevant. Gravity is gravity and it will slow that train down at -9.80m/s^2 regardless of if there is one train or one hundred.

On a side note, air resistance would make a difference, but since just adding another train wouldn't change it's profile, it's not going to change the speed at the top.

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Joshua Wilcox

It is correct that gravity will slow down a 4- or 5-car train the same when launched at the same speed. However, a 5-car train has more kinetic energy stored up at the instant the train leaves the launch sled than a 4-car train. As the train begins to crest the tophat and go horizontal again, a 5-car train has more kinetic energy left over than the 4-car train does, since kinetic energy is dependant on mass. Remember, although it takes more energy to launch a heavier train the same speed, it also takes just as much more energy to stop it.

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Launching in T-minus 10, 9, 8, 7 days...
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I would rather hear synthesizers sing than hear rappers talk.

*** This post was edited by Kevin Lehman 4/28/2003 7:48:06 AM ***

For those of you who are in the Metro Detroit area like myself, I wanted to tell you that WDRQ, 93.1, is having Jake Edwards at a Meijer store today from 5-7 pm, and they said they were going to be giving away seats to be some of the first people to ride Dragster. Sorry, I don't know the exact location of the Meijer's, but if you listen to 93.1, I'm sure they will talk about it again.

Jay and The Morning Revolution were talking to some guests about it today, and Jay was getting really nervous just talking about it. It was great to hear him explain the drop after the top hat. Only a few days to go!

-Mikey

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Drag Races: 0

I haven't heard about this yet, but I'm guessing the winners will get to ride on Media Day.

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Launching in T-minus 10, 9, 8, 7 days...
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I would rather hear synthesizers sing than hear rappers talk.

Kevin:

First of all, I don't really know anything about the 93.1 thing, but I can almost guarantee that the winners will not get to ride on Media Day. They MAY get to be part of the Red Cross auction first-riders...

Also, if you want to talk about energy, you have to consider ALL energy, not just kinetic. Yes, the 5-car train will have more kinetic energy when launched at the same speed. But, it will also have more potential energy at the top of the top hat (mgh). In fact, because both potential and kinetic energy depends on mass, you can set energy before (all kinetic) equal to energy after (mostly potential, some kinetic) and the mass completely cancels out.

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Dragster "Top Thrills": 0
World's first strata-coaster!
*** This post was edited by Majin Heero 4/28/2003 9:57:27 AM ***

Thank you Majin, you're my hero. ;) I haven't been back to the computer to give any input, but you are absolutely correct about mass cancelling out for conservation of energy analysis.

And to clarify what Airhead was saying, the amount of friction involved is proportional to the force orthogonal to the plane of the track. In other words, since most of the launch is vertical, the track won't be feeling the weight of the train (it is free to roll, right?), so the frictional losses go WAY down compared to when the train is traveling horizontally.

And finally, Kevin, you are right that it will take more energy to stop a heavier train going up the hill, but that extra energy comes from the larger force of gravity on the 5 car train (F=mg, so potential energy U=Fd=mgh). Just as Galileo showed that two objects of different mass drop at the same rate (assuming air resistance is similar for both), the same is true in reverse.

I would encourage anyone with interest in such things to look into a basic physics course. It is quite fulfilling and much more useful in every day life than chemistry or biology. It's nice to have numbers and equations to clarify just what you feel should be happening in the world around us.

I think this thing will be going much faster over the tophat then in test videos. I worked at Cedar Point in 2001 and remember watching them doing morning tests on all the roller coasters. Even Millennium Force crept through the last overbanked turn. There is a lot to be said for warming up rides..epecially those with a launch system..I'm assuming they did tests with water jugs or whatever they use to add weight to the cars. If they did not use these, that's another huge factor in the speed. If the ride would normally go that slow over the tophat any strong winds could easily prevent the train from making it over the top. Fast or slow, this thing has got to have fantastic air time. Trains are not normally going fast over the crest of a lift hill, but you still get air time on them. With a ride going straight down like this thing does, I could imagine this air time is going to be beyond belief.

I just wanted to clarify what may have been ment by the radio station giving away seats on TTD. Here in Toledo, there are a few radio stations doing promos like that, but the tickets are front of the line passes. They have nothing to do with media day or the Red Cross auction.

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-Chris Woodard
"If you're standing in an uncomfortable position, that means you are in the right position because you are riding Mantis!" - Mantis ride op doing spiels on closing day.

I would just like to say that it has been confirmed that WJRT-ABC12 from Flint, Michigan WILL be visiting Cedar Point on Media Day. Although it's pretty much a given that they will be there, I had to check to make sure.

Kevin Wilson abc12 News assignment editor said:
Billy - I believe we're headed to Cedar Point this week to shoot that story.

Dose anyone know if a TV station form Indianapolis, IN is going to be up there. I say this if the Michigan news station will be there tomorrow I think they will share their video with WRTV 6-INDIANAPOLIS

I know WANE (NewsChannel 15) in Fort Wayne went last year for WT, and they're owned by the same company as WLFI (NewsChannel 18 - Lafayette) and WISH-TV 8 (Indy). They share reporters (mainly the good ones go to Indy) and footage frequently, so I'll bet you can see something about it on all three.

--James
*** This post was edited by jdoty 4/30/2003 11:51:14 AM ***

I live in Indianapolis, IN and I hoping the foyt wayne NBC stations is going to cedarpoint tomorrow.

jodty, so that must mean that those three stations are owned by LIN TV so all of those are CBS Stations

All three of those stations don't have to be the same network. In Detroit, CBS-62 and UPN-50 are owned by the same company, and they have crossover commercials (IE - UPN50 will air a commercial for Everybody Loves Raymond on CBS-62).