Fast Lane

Kevin I think we see eye to eye on a lot of it really. If you don't want to spend the money, then you shouldn't complain about it. However they basically took what was the biggest perk of being a VIP guest (Unlimited quick access to rides) and given it to anyone with a wallet and that I don't like.

You're right though that they are two completely different types of parks. But imagine living down South and being a coaster nut. Cedar Point would be your mecca and you would have the same cost argument with hotels and such.

**EDIT** To respond to Dj
Great point, it isn't much different. All I'm saying is I think there would be a much higher 'value added' if they increased general admissions tickets and went to a FP type system instead of FL. Cedar Point has the 'premium product' of a roller coaster mecca.

Either way it's just tough for me because I can clearly see the critical thinking going on on both sides and can respect your opinions. Loving the debate.

I thought VIP guests were limited to one ride?

tcgolfer said:

djDaemon said:
So? Only the "richer" can afford to go to Disney in the first place, so how is that fair? Shouldn't everyone have equal access to Disney, regardless of whether or not they can afford it? That seems to be your argument with CP's Fast Lane.

CP non-fastlane
$44.99 online
$51.99 at the gate

CP Fastlane
$84.99 online w/ multiple guest discount NON SATURDAY
$91.99 at the gate w/ multiple guest discount NON SATURDAY

Disney
$89.00 Fast pass included..........

Thanks for the breakdown. Cedar point entry with Fast Lane is still cheaper then a single park one day entry to Disneyworld!

CP still has a awesome deal. Cedar point is really selling itself short here!

Let's not forget, pretty soon Disney will be rolling out the Fast Pass gold or Plus system which will only be available for the guests who are spending significantly more by staying at specific Disney owned with expensive packages.

How about comparing the Cedar Point season pass price vs the Disneyworld season pass price :)!!!! Cedar Point wins again!

Kevinj said:
I thought VIP guests were limited to one ride?

They can ride one time go ride another ride and then ride the first ride again. Multiple times for the 8 hours they have the VIP tour.

Extreme example being a marathon of Power Tower and Dragster back and forth with no waits simply so they can ride TTD over and over again. Which to be honest is fine by me because they had to shell out huge $$$ in order to do so.

Kevinj said:
Because you'd be sick of Disney, just like people around here get tired of CP. We're planning trips to Dollywood this year, Busch Gardens the next, and Disney over the next 3 years. Something different.

I know exactly what your talking about. My parents used to live in Orlando and have season passes to Disney and they got tired of it but they never did Fass Pass because they went atleast once a week. They eventually moved to Ohio because they thought the Florida weather was boring (which it is) and we now go to Disney every other year. We all love Disney but you do get tired of things. Just like all us that live in Northern Ohio, we love Cedar Point but we get tired of it. I personally think Kings Island is a better park, Cedar Point has the better rides but with Kings Island and Soak City together, we'd rather spend a day at Kings Island.

When we go to Disney though, we do Fast Pass but we don't do Fast Lane at Kings Island or Cedar Point because we get there so often. Fast Lane is great for people traveling from out of state.

If CP went with a higher price for admission and a FP type system, folks would be complaining that they raised ticket prices. And the park dynamics are not the same as they are at Disney in terms of having people waiting in virtual lines. Disney has more multiple day visitors who are spending money at gift shops, character meals, restaurants in general, etc. and folks who can go back to their hotel pool for a couple of hours when they are not waiting in line. CP has more one day visitors who if given the opportunity to wait in virtual lines will just wait in other lines or fill the midways. Some will spend more money but not as many as who are visiting Disney.

Running an amusement park, like pretty much everything else in life, requires making choices. No matter what choice you make, you will not make everyone happy. Build a new ride and some folks will wish you had built a different one. Tear a ride down to build a new one and some folks will long for the old ride. Offer a premium service for an upcharge and some folks will want it for free. Increase your ticket prices for everyone and some folks will complain they didn't want the service. Its all a balancing act.

Goal is to maximize profits in the long run. They have better access to more info than we do in terms of maximizing profits. So absent clear evidence to the contrary, I will trust their judgment.

And CP doesn't care about everyone having a good time? They why do they have all those rides? And games? And food stands/restaurants? And shows?

To your first point, when I'm at Disney and I get a Fast Pass, most of the time I'll go wait in another line while I wait for my FP time to come up. Or if the time is far enough away, I'll ride multiple rides or get food. I would guess most people are't leaving the park after they get a FP at Disney. Anything else you named otherwise people could do at CP as well with the exclusion of Character meals, but who's to say CP could't do that?

Like I said, I understand that it's all about the $$$ and to that degree CP is doing a great job with FL. I just don't like how it's executed is all.

I never said CP doesn't care, just that it's a lot more obvious when you're at a Disney park than at a Cedar Fair one. However that's just my experience. I would also like to point out though that I did work for the Point in rides for two years.

The only aspect about Fast Lane that seems a bit too much on the surface is the unlimited access. That said, I have not heard of that causing any problems as of yet, but we're not exactly in the busiest time of the season just yet either.

We'll see what tweaks they make down the road.

CP will always have a majority of its visitors as day trippers. Most Disney visitors are multi-day visitors. The dynamics of having the two different groups waiting in lines is much different. And the merchansiding opportunities that Disney has will never be duplicated by CP (or anything remotely close).

Disney is the gold standard in terms of service. No other parks really come close (few other businesses do in any industry). But as has been noted, there is a premium paid for that. We spent upwards of $2000 to add 3.5 days at Disney to our trip to Orlando last summer. It takes a lot of visits to CP to come close to that dollar amount. And in some instances, Disney may be a little more subtle about taking your money (and often times they are not subtle at all -- how do you like those rides that empty into gift shops? :)). But rest assured, they are getting a fair chunk of your money.

Now that Fast Lane has been in affect for a while now, how much longer does a "non-FL-user" have to wait than that of last year's queues (without Fast Lane)?

People have reported to waiting from anywhere to 5 to 60 min. longer... I'm guessing it all really depends on the rides and the crowd, but if I had to estimate for a busy day, It'd be something like 30 min. longer for the more popular rides, as there will most likely be marathoners, and about 10 min. longer for the less popular ones. But as I said before, it all really depends on what kind of people buy fast lane (like marathoners), how many people buy fast lane, and which rides they decide to go on.

tcgolfer said:

Disney is out to ensure that everyone, no matter what, is having a good time in the park. Period. That's why I love it down there and why I will save for years to ensure I can return. I don't think I can say the same thing about Cedar Point, although Luminosity seems to be a HUGE step forward.

Disney is just like CP and every other entertainment venue in that want to ensure that they take as much money out of guest's pockets as possible.

The main point of Disney's FastPass is to take guests out of queue lines and into shops and restaurants where they are spending money. It has nothing to do with ensuring, no matter what, that everyone is having a good time. It DOES improve the guest experience, and the fact that they can market it as such is a bonus to them. But, make no mistake, it is in place to optimize opportunity time guests have to spend money.

CP's Fast Lane is, of course, also about making more money. Instead of paying indirectly in gift shops, games and restaurants, you pay an up front fee to increase your in park spending. Different method of operation, same end result.

Pete I understand that entirely. My comment was more of an overall generalization between the two parks instead of specific about the FL or FP systems.

So golfer, were you simply meaning that that Disney is a park that has "more of something for everyone" as compared to CP?

That and when I'm at Disney at least I can feel just everything about it trying to help me have the best day possible. The employees, rides, atmosphere, etc.

Like we all have said, it's impossible to compare Disney to Cedar Point straight up. You just can't do it. But I still feel like Cedar Point could do a lot more to help ensure this kind of experience in their park.

I think FP vs FL is just one ingredient that could help I guess is all I'm saying.

djDaemon said:

Everyone has access to FL passes at CP as well.

Only 20% have access.

GoBucks89 said:
If CP went with a higher price for admission and a FP type system, folks would be complaining that they raised ticket prices.

You'd be surprised about how many people I hear different while standing in line. Just yesterday, heard in nearly every line, different people each time, saying they would like the FP system for everyone AND wouldn't mind the 5-10 dollar increment in prices.

tcgolfer said:
I would guess most people are't leaving the park after they get a FP at Disney.

Nobody is anymore now that they are restricting the time to come back to the actual time on the Fast Pass. I know plenty of people that used to go in the morning and collect some for Space, then go to another park/water park/back to their hotel room and just wait till night to ride.

! said:
Now that Fast Lane has been in affect for a while now, how much longer does a "non-FL-user" have to wait than that of last year's queues (without Fast Lane)?

Didn't ride TTD during the regular hours, thanks to it opening at 9, and the night time ERT. Millie had a great crew member working the lines, and kept both moving at a reasonable pace making it seem like Fast Lane wasn't there anymore.

Maverick kept having difficulties with idiots trying to record the ride, getting caught, and then refusing to give up the phone, making the ride stop for 10+ minutes. Very hard to determine what kept what waiting, so I'm calling it a wash right now.

It wouldn't be a Fast Pass system if it was for everyone! If that were the case, you would be seeing the same lines you are seeing now in the standard queues. That would just be redundant altogether.

I believe he's arguing for the benefits of a virtual queue system, where you're given a ride reservation time, rather than allowed to skip to the front of the line.

Sealedseven said:

GoBucks89 said:
If CP went with a higher price for admission and a FP type system, folks would be complaining that they raised ticket prices.

You'd be surprised about how many people I hear different while standing in line. Just yesterday, heard in nearly every line, different people each time, saying they would like the FP system for everyone AND wouldn't mind the 5-10 dollar increment in prices.

I never said that some folks wouldn't like it. But aside from your small sample size, you also had a biased one. You talked with people in lines, presumably for bigger rides, who as a group will be much more likely to be in favor of a FP system. Talk with people who spend all day in Camp Snoopy or at shows or on rides that rarely have more than a one cycle wait time or watching their grandkids have fun. You are likely to get a different view of paying $5-10 more for essentially no benefit from a FP system.

The Disney FP system isn't very complicated. Its been around for a whille. Cedar Fair has a former Disney guy in charge who I suspect understands the system well. Given the opportunity to put a system in place at Cedar Point, they went with the Fast Lane system. Presumably because they believe it will increase profits more than any other feasible system. They have a lot more info than any of us has. Could they be wrong on this one? Sure. But until I see something conclusively indicating that they are, I will leave it to their judgment.

GoBucks89 said:

The Disney FP system isn't very complicated. Its been around for a whille. Cedar Fair has a former Disney guy in charge who I suspect understands the system well. Given the opportunity to put a system in place at Cedar Point, they went with the Fast Lane system. Presumably because they believe it will increase profits more than any other feasible system. They have a lot more info than any of us has. Could they be wrong on this one? Sure. But until I see something conclusively indicating that they are, I will leave it to their judgment.

That right there is kind of the problem from where I'm sitting. Like many have said Disney does a great job at separating you from your money however it's not always so obvious. That's another reason why I'm not a huge fan of FL. I know their job is to increase profit, I just wish it wasn't so obvious.