Extended Closure

99er:

eritas55:

Instead, I strongly suspect Zamperla got the job because they...

...had a product that fit within Cedar Point's budget.

no, no responsible company buys a product solely because it fits a budget. It's a combination of (1) can they build it and will it perform reliably and (2) within budget. Without the expectation that criteria (1) can be met, the budget is irrelevant.

Do you think Kennywood is presently celebrating how within budget Steel Curtain was?

My wild speculation is this isn't so much about shimmy/LSM alignment and more about some unexpected stress/signs of fatigue on some component of the train, probably the wheel assembly(?), or some component of the chassis? I hope not, because that might require a little bit more engineering/ build/ install time than desirable.

that said, remember when Intamin and/or CP discovered the roll on Maverick was too intense, how quickly they re-designed that section (albeit it was simplistic), manufactured the track and installed it? Same thing with the stress fracture on Fury 325 -- even major repairs can happen pretty quickly.

Because I hate being wrong, I went and checked out the ride again this evening. Around 7:30 2 guys were out at the panel actively moving the silver train from the station to the storage track. The blue train was already there, and the black train was in the brake run across from the station.

At the risk of sounding like an idiot, is it a safety issue to keep trains stored in the station/on the brake run when a ride is closed? Why are they offloaded onto storage track every night?

Maintenance takes place every night/morning after the park closes, and the storage track area is the place where that happens.

I concur on the daily maintenance. After closing my ride every night in 2002, I remember maintenance high atop Wicked Twister welding it.

Also, they always sent 1-2 maintenance techs to work on the engines of the go-karts.

veritas55:

no responsible company buys a product solely because it fits a budget.

I have some devastating news for you.

Priority triangle. Speed, quality, cost. Pick your two.

2020TpForSale:

Most of us on the spectrum have a hard time putting our thoughts into words. But you are very articulate, Jeff. Congratulations on overcoming that obstacle.

Not to derail the thread, but this is a horrible generalization. ASD doesn't by default mean anything. I started my career in radio and I've written a book. If you know one person with autism, you know one person with autism. That's why it's a spectrum "disorder." I hate that word too, because I consider it a superpower that has certain liabilities. It affects everyone differently.

DA20Pilot:
Wow. That's the first self-deprecating comment I've ever seen from Jeff, and I've been around since before the site merger.

Not only would I suggest that you just haven't paid close enough attention, but you mistake me for believing that ASD is something to self-deprecate for. I know you didn't intend it that way, but it's borderline offensive.

Anyway...

Fun thing about the maintenance tracks is that they're kinda like some (all?) recent B&M's, in that they're not tracks as much as they are "racks." If you look at the lateral beams that the seats are bolted to, they extend over the edge a bit and have wheels under them, and they roll on the "rack" rails. That means they can freely inspect and change wheels as needed. In fact, it makes it possible to get at pretty much everything.

But look, all of the speculation and theories are not rooted in any actual facts. We don't know anything beyond what the statement said. And all of a sudden everyone is a metallurgist and mechanical engineer, and apparently telepathic and reading the minds of the people who actually know stuff.

Jeff:

Not only would I suggest that you just haven't paid close enough attention, but you mistake me for believing that ASD is something to self-deprecate for. I know you didn't intend it that way, but it's borderline offensive.

I was actually referring to the part about being unable to read the room. And I presumed (apparently wrongfully) your remark about your autism was sarcasm in response to the prior post.

So I apologize for coming across in a way I didn't intend. It was meant to be a good natured needling having nothing to do with autism.

veritas55:

...until the accident, the Intamin trains ran fine at these speeds for about 2 decades (ignoring the tire flying incident) -- the problem was the damn hydraulic launch and brake fin system.

Very strong and unintentionally-hilarious "other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?" vibes with this comment here.

Being charitable, I can only assume the folks complaining about this hiccup were either too young/unborn, or somehow unaware of TTD's performance the first season and beyond. Zamperla had already wildly outperformed Intamin before noon on Media Day.

Last year some were pointing to Wild Mouse's early season issues as evidence of Zamperla's inexperience or whatever, and by all accounts that ride has been just fine since then. So, a little perspective here.

djDaemon:

veritas55:

...until the accident, the Intamin trains ran fine at these speeds for about 2 decades (ignoring the tire flying incident) -- the problem was the damn hydraulic launch and brake fin system.

Very strong and unintentionally-hilarious "other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?" vibes with this comment here.

Being charitable, I can only assume the folks complaining about this hiccup were either too young/unborn, or somehow unaware of TTD's performance the first season and beyond. Zamperla had already wildly outperformed Intamin before noon on Media Day.

And that's you taking my statement entirely out of context. The proper context was the comment made by someone that there was something particularly out-of-the-envelope in constructing a train that could withstand 100mph+ speeds on a regular basis. My comment was simply that the Intamin trains on TTD (and Kingda Ka, and Superman and S&S Dodonpa etc..) had withstood the rigor of tens of thousands of cycles at that speed. It's no longer revolutionary or outside the envelope to have coaster trains approximate those speeds on a regular basis.

Is it really your position that after nearly 20 years of operation the flag plate flying off undermines the entire history and design of those trains?

To me, I'm surprised the "concerns" (of those with concerns) hasn't been the train itself, which, to me, is the greatest unknown. How will it ride and perform? The upside to the train (one-piece, no weld aluminum that is significantly lighter) could also potentially be a risk of serious rattle at these enormous speeds. I also wonder if the higher center of gravity will affect the ride experience on downside tophat spiral. I'm sure they have modeled this to death and that part will be fine. What's harder to model is the train/ ride experience on the ride at 120 mph with a lighter train of this build -- you can't actually pilot this train on track at those speeds.

To be clear, I think the trains will be awesome. My only point is I'm slightly surprised the potential concerns haven't focused on that aspect more than on the ride engineering itself.

this was written back in August 2023 by some prescient, all-knowing entity .... Lol.

veritas55:

And that's you taking my statement entirely out of context.

I was taking it in the context of your other comments, including and especially this one:

veritas55:

...there's just no good way to spin this for Zamperla presently....

I'm not referring to the performance of the trains specifically, and frankly focusing on the use of billet aluminum is bizarre given that we know nothing about what the issue is, but I digress.

In any case, throwing shade at Zamperla while pointing out that "at least Intamin's trains worked... except when the tires flew off" was funny to me.

I'm a little late to the party here, so forgive me if I missed it, but it's been rumored that the ride is burning through wheels a lot faster than expected, which happened with TTD too if I'm not mistaken, which in turn had created more friction on the worn wheels causing it to not clear the tophat on launch 3.

Just a reminder, Zamperla were the ones claiming that these Aluminum trains could go faster than 100 miles per hour. While lighter, Aluminum is not nearly as strong as steel.

El Toro Ryan seems to have an inside scoop. If he is correct, he heavily hints that the problem has something to do with the wheels or the aluminum boogies.

I am guessing here, but I have been speaking to my friend who works as a mechanical engineer for a major theme park in Orlando, he has experience working on the maintenance team at Cedar Point. I wonder if the problem is a combination of the weight of the car along with the aluminum chassis/bogies.

It's a lighter train, so when it gets up to faster speeds it has a greater speed wobble, which has worn faster on the aluminum bogies than expected. I wonder if just switching out the bogies is enough to fix the problem long-term. Will they have to completely go back to the drawing board with redesigning the trains with a different material? Time will tell.

(I wonder too if the problem is aluminum wheels on steel track)

I'm hearing a Monday June 3rd re-opening from the Auntie Anne's pretzel stand girl. Lemon Chill Guy says Memorial Day weekend. We'll see whose correct.

We all know about the Lemon Chill guy, but where did this Auntie Anne's person come from? I am not sure if we can trust this new, unverified person.

Miss Keats vouched for her, didn't you know?

How reliable is Screamscape? They are posting rumors of mid-July and alluding to the issue being quite severe.

https://screamscape.com/htm...m#Dragster