Extended Closure

Does anyone know if you can reschedule a breakers stay? Surely this thing will be open by Jun 15 right? Right???

I’m so nervous because I came to do everything once in a lifetime kinda trip. I was waiting until the new dragster came out and now this. :(

Fingers crossed. *prayer circle for TT2

If it's a 2 week blip or so, it will be no big deal. If it extends deeper into the summer, then if I am a higher up at CP, I start getting very annoyed at Zamperla....

I’m just your average Joe but I can imagine the pressure must be immense if there is actually a very serious issue with the ride. CP really hyped this up as the better more reliable experience and if that drags into late summer(or later) you’ve got a lot of disappointed guests who have already booked their stays at CP. I don’t mean to be over dramatic as this is a first world problem. But I’m spending thousands to come in June for the first time. And I know others from around the country are coming too. Coming to Ohio and staying at the park ain’t cheap unless it’s your home park.

I wonder if it could hurt the reputation of the park. I’m not saying I know more than anyone else here or anything like that but if this remains closed a lot of people who already booked will feel pretty snake bit. But that’s just IMO I’m sorry if I said something stupid.

It's bad for everyone if it is closed. I'm sure Cedar Point and Zamperla both understand the importance of the situation.

As far as announcements go, "complete a mechanical modification" is pretty specific compared to the standard "mechanical issues/problems" verbiage. My guess is the ride will be open again before Memorial Day weekend. Whether it will need additional modification after that is the bigger question.

Jeff:

Except that they've never built a ride at this scale, with these trains, on the bones of someone else's ride, that's faster than all but a handful of other rides, and they're adjusting something that we don't actually know or understand. But sure, no room for a little grace here.

This is hilarious cope. This was the exact line of argumentation used by those who were doubting zamperla involvement about a year ago.

Hopefully, this will be a small set back and the issue can be quickly solved. It's undeniable that this is a bad look especially when a major reason for the tt2 retrofit was to increase reliability.

veritas55:

IF this about the shimmy causes LSM misalignment

The aluminum chassis are likely contributing to the shimmy. In mountain biking, serious riders know that aluminum frames have worse shock absorption than steel and regard steel as a more comfortable ride.

^ Contributing, yes. Culprit, no. The ride isn't hitting tree roots, rocks or potholes.

The shimmy can likely be rectified or at least limited by adjusting the spring stiffness on the wheel assemblies as Jeff mentioned earlier. Stiffer springs as well as increased blocking to decrease the range of travel can sure that up, if that is the problem.

The thing about the "shimmy" is that it existed back in v1 form. The entire launch track and pull up to the top hat are vertically supported with no cross-bracing. If you look at videos of a train launching on TTD (and Kingda Ka) down the launch track you'll see side-to-side movement of the train as it reaches the end of the track prior to pulling up. The difference is that on both KK and TTD, you feel this for a second as you're flying through and going over the top hat. On TT2, you're feeling it multiple times on each pass. The track moves and thus the trains move. If the springs have less tension, it will allow the train to shift more left and right.

If that is the reason, it will have less to do with any rider commentary about a shimmy but largely because any sort of train shift like that would result in alignment issues (or the possibility of it in the future) with the LSM stators.

Fishels :

Coming to Ohio and staying at the park ain’t cheap unless it’s your home park.

Is there a discount for locals I didn't know about? :)

Frog Hopper King:
This is hilarious cope.

I don't even know what this means, but is anything I said untrue?

kevkevdel:
The aluminum chassis are likely contributing to the shimmy. In mountain biking, serious riders know that aluminum frames have worse shock absorption than steel and regard steel as a more comfortable ride.

Maybe I'm not serious enough for you, but I've been content with my aluminum bikes. It's a meaningless comparison anyway. The trains aren't made of hollow tubes, they're solid, machined aluminum. Come to think of it, both of my cars are made with entirely aluminum frames, the back third as one solid piece. Those trains are not bending or flexing in any meaningful way that would affect the ride. Pick up a MacBook Pro lately? Also made from solid, machined aluminum. It's the stiffest piece of consumer electronics I've ever seen.

CoasterLine:

The thing about the "shimmy" is that it existed back in v1 form. The entire launch track and pull up to the top hat are vertically supported with no cross-bracing. If you look at videos of a train launching on TTD (and Kingda Ka) down the launch track you'll see side-to-side movement of the train as it reaches the end of the track prior to pulling up. The difference is that on both KK and TTD, you feel this for a second as you're flying through and going over the top hat. On TT2, you're feeling it multiple times on each pass. The track moves and thus the trains move. If the springs have less tension, it will allow the train to shift more left and right.

This is a good point. I only noticed the fairly intense sway at the pull out into the top hat on a recent video I saw from TT2 opening day. I had never noticed how much track movement there was there, even though the track is simply curving upward.

Jeff:

veritas55:

there's just no good way to spin this for Zamperla presently....

Except that they've never built a ride at this scale, with these trains, on the bones of someone else's ride, that's faster than all but a handful of other rides, and they're adjusting something that we don't actually know or understand. But sure, no room for a little grace here.

No, I wrote earlier that if this is just a two-week-ish blip, then it's no big deal.

But I don't know how one just shrugs their shoulders and mutters "well, we've never built something this scale before" when a multi-million ride opens with great press and public fanfare, is the next generation of a notoriously unreliable breakdown-filled monster, and then closes for "extended closures" about ONE WEEK after it opened -- and after months of extensive pre-opening testing. I don't see CP just shrugging it off as growing pains....

It's simply not a good look --I don't see how it can be spun otherwise. But spin away....

^ We're less than three weeks into the season. Adjustments will be made and needed to be made as time goes on. This goes for more than just TT2.

Until we've reached an entire season of limited availability and / or unreliability, then maybe you can start spinning it as a negative.

This happens in every industry. This is a first-gen train system that Cedar Point elected to go with. This is not Cedar Fair's first rodeo with first generations / prototypes and the possibilities for downtime are always understood, even if it is fully undesirable.

Let's not make a mountain out of a mole hill. Is it disappointing? Sure. Is it fully unexpected? No.

Jeff:

Is there a discount for locals I didn't know about? :)

Likely no airfare and/or car rental. Maybe not even a hotel. Kind of like the "local" discount that you get in going to WDW. And that is on top of the real local discount that you get on your passes for being a Florida resident. I sure wish DeSantis would go after that little perk given his hatred toward Disney!

veritas55:

But I don't know how one just shrugs their shoulders and mutters "well, we've never built something this scale before"

It's easy when this is made known to Cedar Point from Zamperla when the initial discussion begins. It is not uncommon for a manufacture to add into a contract the possibility for changes, modifications, adjustments within a certain time frame that the park agrees to. I am sure Zamperla would have loved another month or two of testing but of course Cedar Point would want it open as soon as possible. The two parties would come to an agreement about this, with the understanding of what could happen when you open too soon. See my previous post about how this could have been known to both parties the whole time, not that we will ever know for sure.

Next you'll tell me that there is a contract with performance and delivery expectations.

I think it’s my autism. But I can never tell when Jeff is serious or sarcastic.

Maybe it's mine. I can barely read a room in real life, let alone online.

Wow. That's the first self-deprecating comment I've ever seen from Jeff, and I've been around since before the site merger.

I would have never pinpointed Jeff as autistic. Wow. That’s interesting to know. Most of us on the spectrum have a hard time putting our thoughts into words. But you are very articulate, Jeff. Congratulations on overcoming that obstacle.

Zamperla naysayer here. If the problem is the lightweight aluminum chassis and wheels, I wonder if it will be able to clear the tower with heavier trains. (might not be a problem with more momentum) I agree with Frog and Veritas, this was why we were worried if the first place. These lightning trains are an unproven product. At least with TTD they proved that it could make it over the top hat with Xcelerator. (See the test video where they cranked it up to 100) They will figure it out one way or another but its a bummer for sure. A group of friends and I will be driving up from North Carolina and in the park Saturday.

I'm not a mechanical engineer, but from a layman's perspective, my eyebrows were raised a bit from the beginning when I heard the side wheels were spring loaded instead of fixed in position. (Not to say that i expected this situation though!). It seems to me that it would be difficult to have enough spring force to keep the train in optimal centered position at those speeds and forces. And, springs tend to lose their strength over time, even massive ones like the suspension in my Miata. I had to replace them because they had sagged so much that the car couldn't stay in alignment with the weight of the driver in the car.

So, my best speculative guess is the issue has something to do with the spring loading on the side wheels, especially given the reports of lateral shimmy.

It will be interesting to see what the deal is. If it is ever revealed, and what they come up with to solve it.

The "no stopper at the top of the back spike" is still the thing I dislike the most about this ride.