Disapointed with Raptor

Well, actually this new rule on Raptor.  In case you haven't heard, they've placed a new rule on Raptor.  If you can't buckle the OTSR yourself, you can't ride.  I was extremely dissapointed with this, as I'm about 1/2 an inch short of being able to buckle it myself.  So, when I went yesterday 9/29, I was unable to ride.  This is absolutely ridiculous.  What difference does it make if I buckle it or the ride op buckles it, as long as it gets done.  While I sat there and waited for the rest of my group to get off the ride (5 min. wait), I saw at least a dozen other people get turned away.  At least they checked me at the front of the line, in the sample seat. 

I believe this rule is due to the unfortunate incident at Knott's.  But seriously, this is a completely different set of circumstances as far as ride safetly goes.  I'm extremely upset and dissapointed with CP for making this ludicris decision.  Anyone have some insight into whether this rule is permenant, or just a temporary thing?

tg

I'm also bugged about that, for this reason, when ever i ride Raptor I get ready to buckle my own belt and the all of a sudden an up runs up and does it for me, I'm sure i could do it myself but its not like they are letting me practice or anything. But that good part is that they let you try at the entrance and not wait until you get up to the platform.
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2001 MF Count: 2
Favs:
1. Iron Dragon
2. Raptor
3. Gemini
4. Magnum
5. Cedar Creek Mine Ride

It is another crazy rule at an amusement park. Safety is not the issue, the issue is ride ops not wanting to be responsible legally for any accidents. Next time have one of your friends with you help you get the restraint buckled up before they get in their own seat.

jaredb12, the reason that us ride ops run up and fasten your seat belt is not because we think that you're not capable of doing it, it's just that we are pressed to beat the clock. We have a capacity to meet for the day and if we start stacking trains because every guest wants to buckle their own seatbelt, we will get chewed out, and the lines will get so much longer, and we will have angry mobs of guests upset at the length of the line. That's all :)

What I don't understand. I buckle my own seat belt all the time, why can't you? Its right there. I don't have an attitude or anything but why can't you buckle it?
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You are the Weakest Link, Goodbye.

This is ******** I agree. It started because of the accident on Perilous Plunge I presume. I thought this policy was only in tact on Millennium Force but I guess there is more. What the hell, PP and Raptor or totally different rides.Raptor has been operating safely under the old policy since 94 so why change things? Damn Safety Nazi's.

This is going to kill capacity to. Everytime somone who comes up just short they will have to be let off, which involves releasing and rechecking restraints.

By the way. Whoever cuts the belts can't measure because I've noticed some belts are different length's. So if you fit in the test chair on either MF or Raptor dose not necessarily mean you will fit on the ride. Dumb Cedar Point
*** This post was edited by Joe E. on 9/30/2001. ***
[profanity removed... you know better. this is your only warning. i don't want that crap on my site. -J]

*** This post was edited by Jeff on 9/30/2001. ***

Magnum2G3
Some of our larger friends require a little push down on the restraint. I have seen it done a million time, well probably more like 100.

Oh, and for those who don't know there is a big sign out in front of Millennium Force that states something like.

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You must be able to fasten your own seatbelt to ride

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More on that later.

OK, but can we reasonably expect the ride ops to buckle your seatbelt for you? Do you want them to wash your windshield and fill up your tank on the way out, too?

The park owns the ride, and the park can set the rules for it as well (even if we don't agree with them - I'm with you on  this).

But with the attention from Markey and others, and the death on PP from a large guest, I can see why CP is being a bit cautious. They don't want the Political Lens of Skeptcism pointed at their ride saftey, espically not with the biggest rollercoaster in the Western Hemisphere there (and whatever they've got up their sleeve for next year!) That being said, I wouldn't be suprised to see this rule relaxed if not completely erased by the time the park opens next year. Time will tell.

-Ken

Sorry if I sound stupid, but I never really paid attention to the seatbelt, I (or a ride op) just buckled it.  What would prevent someone from buckling their own seatbelt?

Could someone give me a link to what happened on the other ride, PP?

(Sorry, I've been away from the computer for awhile)

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coasterkingoftheworld said:
Safety is not the issue...

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Wrong. Safety is always the issue. Walter and Claude designed a ride that could safely accomodate people of a certain size. While it does kill capacity when you need two ride ops to get a restraint down, the bigger issue is that you're putting forces on the restraint that weren't intended. The belt is stretched with continuous force against it, and the restraint itself is one or two clicks from open. Will it hold? Probably, but that's not a chance I'd be willing to take as a park operator.
I hate to say it, but enthusiasts don't have the expertise or the liability for the public's safety. So unless you want more blood-sucking lawyers jumping on every little knee scrape that happens in a park, you'd best let the experts address safety.
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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP
Watch my grass grow: http://www.sillynonsense.com/subdivision/

Sorry Jeff. We all have our cranky days and I am having one right now. I do know better :).

I just find it Ironic that they would "suddenly" change the policy as if B&M and Intamin were the same company. I am no expert, but this means they may have been doing something wrong the last 6 years.

It is too bad and it might slow capacity some, but I think anything that communicates self-responsibility (even if it is tokenism) to the rider is good idea. I agree with everything Jeff said, but blood-sucking lawyers can't sue without clients.

Well, they've been having the ride ops buckle the seatbelts on Mantis for 3 years now...has it hurt capacity? I'm not sure if this can be answered because of people not standing up and having to unlock seats and such.

SAFETY IS TOTALLY THE ISSUE!

Nice to see that some people on here think that it is becasue of the ride operators not wanting the responsibility of possibly having something happen and having it blaimed on us.  Don't you think that we put up with enough already in the course of an average day.  We (the crew at MF) are actually a little upset at the fact that guests that got to ride last year and even this year are no longer allowed to ride due to the incidents at Knotts. 

The worst part about it is that we have now we have to change policy right at end of the season and we have been kicking butt under the old policy.  Safety is the issue though and the one thing that all of us want to do is make sure that you are safe, we work all day long making sure that you guys are safe and if you don't like the new policy you should not complain to the ride crews but to the management of the park. 

Cedar Point employs us this means we follow Cedar Point rules and policies!

Jamin

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because the accident I presume was because of weight (which makes me doubt the report at the top of this page ), I understood the reason for the new rules on Millennium Force. This keeps overweight riders off the ride so it will be safe. Yes, It will kill capacity and the Kick but job the MF crew has been doing all year but I understand the need to do this on that ride because of other incidents. If anything I think it is a great move by CP instead of just placing some random weight limit on the ride. It keeps the right people on the ride, as well as the people who shouldn't be able to ride, off.
 
On the other hand the incident at Knotts probably have nothing to do with a B&M invert. The only logical thing I can think of is there is a temporary measure out around the globe until all rides can be proven safe with a larger load. Unless I don't recall a large person falling out of a B&M in the past month, I don't see why this measure is in place except for the reason above
 
The reason I am so adamant about this subject is I saw one person get very upset (as in crying and embarrassed) Friday night when she did not get to ride Millennium Force when normally she would have been able to. It was not a fun thing to witness and I feel even more sorry for the crew. Like Jamin said this is one more headache they have to deal with from a list of many. For the Raptor crew, I feel it is an unnecessary headache.
 
If there is found to be a weight problem with Intamin restrains, it has to be changed so this new policy will go away. If I just paid $27 million for a ride, the last thing I would want is its capacity to be reduced. The MF crew has been doing great all year, and unfortunately unless another solution is found I can see 1200PPH falling to below 1000 really quick. IMG border=0 src="images/frown.gif"] Ditto for Raptor

*** This post was edited by Joe E. on 10/1/2001. ***

Hold on here... I think you're over-reacting about capacity for two reasons. The first is that it doesn't take longer to ask someone to get off the ride than it does to take one or two ride ops trying to get the restraint or belt to stick. If anything, it probably saves time, especially if they can't get the thing down after all of that effort and the guest needs to exit anyway. Second, it's not like every other guest is large enough to end up in this situation in the first place. Capacity dropping by 200 pph? I don't think so.

Yes, it sucks when you have to upset someone like that, but there was a woman in California who, given the choice, would probably rather be embarassed than dead.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP
Watch my grass grow: http://www.sillynonsense.com/subdivision/

If it was taken liberally though, meaning you have to be able to fasten your own belt, then I think it could reduce capacity that much. Not everyone knows how to fasten the belts quickly if at all.Note how many times somebody wraps the belt over the side bar which is improper. Thankfully common sense prevailed they did help fasten the belts on people who were definitely not overweight.

I personably could tell the MF crew was off Friday Night. When they usually stack, it is only for a few seconds but the staking was consistent and for longer times.(This also may have had something to due with lack of regulars). However I totally agree on that ride this needs to be done until it is all sorted out.

On Raptor I do agree it will not kill capacity that much because of the ability to release individual rows instead of the whole train. Still if like mrh216 says a dozen people are turned away every few minutes it will hurt a little.

The only thing I don't agree with (I am actually somewhat pleased the way they handled MF) is why this rule was suddenly provoked on Raptor. If a DC-9 crashes due to a defected part should all Boeings be grounded too?

Is the ride safer now? Maybe. There is a point though when too much safety can infinge on our liberty's. This has more to do with just our silly coasters (which makes this debate seem minor). An example is our currently situation with the airline industry. If we have Interrogation, background checking, and lie detection before we can board will it make things safer? Yes (BTW, other counties do have this) Is it worth the hassle? That is a judgement call.

I guess Cedar Point thinks there is no compromise for safety, even if it involves angering people and turning them away. I guess that makes sense. I am glad this is not my decision to make :).

The problem with Raptor, is that in their infinite wisdom, Walter and Claude designed OTSRs with pads so thick it can be tough to fit your arm through to buckle said seatbelt.

MF, for obvious reasons, doesn't have this problem.

Yes that too. On Raptor a gentle shove sometimes from outside will get people in, but if you are trying to do it yourself, no dice. That is what I am worried about. The people who are just big enough not to make it.

It being cold out and people having extra clothing is not going to help either. Oh Well.