Dark ride?

MrJohnJLewis said:

So if you take a step back, you're really going to say that area is of the same quality as Camp Snoopy and Planet Snoopy??

Yes, that's what I'm going to say, because if my kid is happy at an amusement park, I'm happy at an amusement park. If I posted a photo of him on a CP carousel and the Magic Kingdom carousel at the same age, you wouldn't know which one was which. It's the same reaction.

e x i t english said:

SkyDiver - Just have some avacado toast and it’ll be alright :-D

As for Mr. John Lewis - I’m proposing we all just act like he isn’t here. It’ll drive him nuts because he isn’t getting attention.

lol!

MrJohnJLewis said:

Honorarius said:

MrJohnJLewis said:

I started this post challenging people, and then people decided to use my age to more or less say my opinion is irrelevant.

To be fair, I decided your opinion was irrelevant when your response to anyone trying to explain the contrary position was "Ya, but still...", it had nothing to do with your age...

The only explanation I received was that they are expensive to maintain and I don't think that's a good enough reason. You may think that, but I do not. Awesome cars are expensive, and equally expensive to maintain. Because they're awesome

Proof again that you don't either aren't reading, or not comprehending what else was said...

Proof again that you don't either aren't reading, or not comprehending what else was said...

I read it, and I understand. If some of these Intamin rides were sooooo expensive to maintain, and hard to deal with after the sale then why wouldn't Cedar Point just remove them? They obviously build a high quality product, because they are the parks BEST COASTERS. They have found a way to deal with it and the rides continually bring people to the park every year so I have a feeling it all works out for them. Simple economics, you have to spend money to make money. Building the world's most expensive roller coaster that everyone hates? Bad business. Building an expensive coaster that everyone loves and brings people to the park year after year? Great business idea

Now y'all are trolling just to troll. First you want a dark ride because that appeals to families, and then I suggest renovating a kid and now all of a sudden the kids don't care?

You talk about "simple economics" but don't seem to appreciate depreciation, amortization, capitalized vs. maintenance costs, etc. But tell us about the BEST rides and what's good for business.

Cedar Point did remove an Intamin ride for all the reasons listed above, Shoot the Rapids. And look at Volcano at Kings Dominion. That was removed last year as well. And it wasn't that old of a ride and it was a popular ride. I think it was only 20 years old.

Am I living in the Twilight Zone or did Cedar Point not build the world’s best roller coaster back in 2018, and that was not an Intamin? Why does it have to be an Intamin, Mr John?

Funny, we all get the sense you're just trolling us.

They don't remove them because they've already spent the money to build them. Tearing it down would cost money, and building something in it's place would cost even more. Do you really not understand that??? They just have to suck it up and pay the extra money in parts and manpower to maintain it, and tolerate the extra downtime.

Listen, I'd love an Intamin. They make some of my favorite rides. I'd love to have one at my home park. But I can also see from a business standpoint why the park has chosen alternatives for its recent coasters.

Now y'all are trolling just to troll. First you want a dark ride because that appeals to families, and then I suggest renovating a kid and now all of a sudden the kids don't care?

Because you can’t just go around renovating kids like that. That’s not how it works! ;)

MrJohnJLewis said:

Now y'all are trolling just to troll. First you want a dark ride because that appeals to families, and then I suggest renovating a kid and now all of a sudden the kids don't care?

I'm not looking to pile on or join in the MrJohn bashing/trolling, but I think you are maybe converting apples to oranges. I speak for ME PERSONALLY and my family (although I think this also applies in a general sense to many others). While both can be loosely considered as "appealing to families" - a dark ride and a kiddie ride are still marketed to two different demographics. There may be some overlap in those demographics (as there is some overlap between the person who wants an extreme coaster and a tame leisurely family ride - I fall into that crossover). As someone who no longer has Kiddie Kingdom age appropriate kids, but fondly remembers those days - a "family appeal" ride means more of the adult enjoyable rides that don't go up 150+ feet or faster than 40 MPH. A dark ride would fit that bill nicely. As will the new Snake River ride.

But as to Kiddie Kingdom, Jeff is right. A kid riding a motorcycle or a sports car or whatever-type-of-vehicle in a tight circle incessantly beeping an obnoxious buzzer/horn doesn't care about theming or updated spaces or anything else. The biggest gripe they might have is if that annoying buzzer doesn't work on their chosen vehicle, but even that they will get over pretty quickly. A kid will run excitedly from one to another to a third and fourth ride. They are all essentially the same ride, just a different vehicle. But that slight difference in setting is plenty enough variation for a toddler. That area is perfect IMO as it is.

I recall another similar thread here a few years ago where this idea of updating the Kiddie Kingdom rides came up. It may have even been in response to someone saying Cedar Fair needed to change/update their association with Peanuts to another more modern cartoon franchise - with the failed logic that many kids today don't know Snoopy and Charlie Brown as well as those 30 years ago... But put a kid in the presence of any fuzzy costumed animal or cartoon - they won't care how familiar it is to them. They just want a fuzzy hug from a cute character.

So as an elderly 48 year old, with a daughter about the same age as MrJohn, I vote that we just give MrJohn some warm fuzzy hugs (that he would secretly love, but would be too embarrassed to admit) and calm down with the old vs young comparisons. ;-)

I welcome all hugs!! The only reason this became hostile is when people get put down or silenced because of their age. Everyone is welcome to have their opinion about what is best for our favorite park and I am welcome to mine.

RMC did make the best coaster, but I simply disagreed with the explanation given about why CP won't work with Intamin.

If all of the parents think Kiddie Kingdom is fine, well then fine. The only time I have ever been there was talking to or from Gatekeeper and I always just thought this area could look nicer. But if you guys don't care, then I don't care.

The next roller coaster CO plans on building doesn't have to be an Intamin, I just suggested that because of the great Intamin rides already in the park and the most recent B&K additions have been lesser. B&M is capable of amazing coasters, like Banshee at Kings Island; but the CP rides were not special in my opinion.

I have a feeling that in another 20 years, we will still all love Millennium Force more than Valravn. That's why I suggest stop building "gimmick" middle of the road coasters. Nobody is coming to the park because their friend told them about Valravn. That is all

Is your real name Sandor?

For our members that were not born yet.

IF CP does another deal with Intamin, there will be a. liquidated damages provision in the contract.

JohnMosesBrowning said:

IF CP does another deal with Intamin, there will be a. liquidated damages provision in the contract.

Can you expand on that??

He stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

If CP does work with Intamin again, it will be after there's a shakeup at Intamin and the new management is easier to work with and they make stuff more reliably without cutting corners and trying to avoid paying patent royalties.

MrJohnJLewis said:

JohnMosesBrowning said:

IF CP does another deal with Intamin, there will be a. liquidated damages provision in the contract.

Can you expand on that??

Not unusual in large contracts. I dealt with this all the time in the telecom industry. Performance specs will be included in the contract. If the product fails to meet the defined specs, the buyer gets remuneration as defined in the contract.

I often wonder if Shoot the Rapids wasn't at least in part a make-good for Maverick, which was a make-good for Dragster, which, along with Wicked Twister, was a make-good for Millennium Force...

Throw in Intrimidator 305, Xcelerator, and Perilous Plunge, and Cedar Fair's overall experience with Intamin has been obviously terrible; plus they inherited Volcano, which was also a fuvg-show from the beginning even though Paramount managed to get it working sort-of OK.

I don't understand why Cedar Point bought major five rides from that company. After Millennium Force failed to even come close to its performance specifications, I'd think they would have gone shopping. But it was well received and mostly worked. But after Perilous Plunge killed a rider, I'm surprised that Xcelerator even got built, let alone Top Thrill Dragster.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I’ve seen people mention MF not working to spec. I admit I’m late to the party (wasn’t aware of anything beyond Darien Lake and SeaBreeze till 2001-ish), what was the problem with MF?