Could Intamin make a bigger upgrade to TTD?

Monday, August 5, 2019 2:46 AM
Chuck Wagon's avatar

I've always thought that some day someone will come up with a way to make a coaster "like" TTD that is much more reliable and cost effective. When that happens, then TTD will finally get the axe.

Some day...maybe 2050.


-- Chuck Wagon --
aka Pagoda Gift Shop

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Monday, August 5, 2019 6:23 AM
djDaemon's avatar

Augustmueller said:
...the top rated (and aging attractions) on Point are from Intamin. Funny how that works. Just awful.

Yeah, they make some great coasters. But those great coasters are also awful products (from the purchaser's perspective). I mean, there's a reason CF (and pretty much everyone else in North America) has shied away from working with Intamin over the last decade or so. Hell, the only reason anyone still works with them is because Intamin is cheap. But you get what you pay for.

How many B&M rides spend the majority of their inaugural seasons SBNO? How many B&M rides have, after 6 seasons, been removed from parks due to nearly killing their passengers (in addition to failing at their primary goal - to have boats that actually, you know, float)? How many B&M rides have had elements removed prior to being opened to the public, leading to a delayed opening? How many B&M rides have had huge sections of track replaced after one season?

Some of my favorite rides are from Intamin. But I sure as hell wouldn't want to own one.


Brandon

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Monday, August 5, 2019 8:42 AM
Thabto's avatar

Sea World and Busch have been installing new Intamin rides the last couple of years. I haven't been keeping up with those, so I don't know if their reliability has improved.


Brian
Valravn Rides: 24| Steel Vengeance Rides: 26| Dragster Rollbacks: 1
2021 Visits: 3

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Monday, August 5, 2019 9:34 AM
XS NightClub's avatar

Universal has been using Intamin as well in the USA, and they by no means need to use a cheap manufacturer.

Last edited by XS NightClub, Monday, August 5, 2019 9:35 AM

Sandusky Fan.

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Monday, August 5, 2019 9:53 AM

Also if upgrading Mean Streak to Steel Vengeance didn't see the expected attendance growth why would they consider adding 40 ft to TTD? It's just not worth it.

I would plan on seeing TTD removed before you see added height. ;)

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Monday, August 5, 2019 10:12 AM
XS NightClub's avatar

From what I can find, since 2016 Valravn there were only two B&M coasters in the US, both of which were conversions from stand-ups.


Sandusky Fan.

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Monday, August 5, 2019 10:42 AM

^Mako also opened in 2016 at Sea World Orlando.

Nothing "new" in '17 - '19 in the US.

2020 will have at least 3 with Mako (Dive) at SW San Diego, Candymonium (Hyper) at Hershey and the coaster at King's Island (Giga?).

They have been really busy in Europe and China in 2017-2019 with 13 coasters built.

Source: https://rcdb.com/r.htm?ot=2&mk=6831&ii&page=1&order=-8

Last edited by WolfBobs, Monday, August 5, 2019 11:41 AM
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Monday, August 5, 2019 11:18 AM
XS NightClub's avatar

Nice info on that site, looks like Intamin has been very busy in that timeframe as well.

https://rcdb.com/r.htm?mk=6837&order=-8&ot=2


Sandusky Fan.

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Monday, August 5, 2019 12:36 PM
Sparty42's avatar

XS NightClub said:

Universal has been using Intamin as well in the USA, and they by no means need to use a cheap manufacturer.

While this is true, have you heard the horror stories about the Hagrid ride for Universal? It's had awful reliability because of the high-speed switch (apparently).

Intamin loves pushing the envelope, which is great, but not when it comes to the thing that makes the return on investment worth it for the park (which is putting riders in seats to justify initial/maintenance cost).

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Monday, August 5, 2019 1:17 PM
XS NightClub's avatar

Would that be not as bad or worse than two trains colliding on opening day?


Sandusky Fan.

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Monday, August 5, 2019 2:18 PM
Dvo's avatar

Sparty42 said:

Intamin loves pushing the envelope, which is great, but not when it comes to the thing that makes the return on investment worth it for the park (which is putting riders in seats to justify initial/maintenance cost).

Putting riders in the seats isn't nearly as important as bringing patrons through the gates. Even if a ride is down for some or all of the day, if the attendance numbers are up, it's a good investment.


370 MF laps
Smoking Area Drone Pilot

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Monday, August 5, 2019 2:48 PM
XS NightClub's avatar

This new Intamin ride is definitely driving the gate turnstiles, up to 10 hour queues and still getting overwhelming positive reviews on social media.

According to Universal due to the extreme popularity and queue length they are running the way past closing time and not leaving proper downtime for maintenance and ride adjustments.

Plus they also announced they’re building another park in Florida, should be interesting to see if Intamin is a choice for their new park


Sandusky Fan.

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Monday, August 5, 2019 2:48 PM
djDaemon's avatar

XS NightClub said:

Universal has been using Intamin as well in the USA, and they by no means need to use a cheap manufacturer.

And that's worked out great so far! Universal, in an apparent bid to cut costs wherever possible (because the total attraction price tag was in the hundreds of millions), bought an Intamin. And the ride has been plagued with problems. Running at partial capacity, opening hours late every day, etc.

XS NightClub said:

Nice info on that site, looks like Intamin has been very busy in that timeframe as well.

https://rcdb.com/r.htm?mk=6837&order=-8&ot=2

Not in North America (where Sandor is employed). In the last decade, Intamin has opened 7 coasters in NA, one of which is the lemon at Universal. B&M has opened 15 in that same span, and with what problems? Two trains bumped on Valravn. Whoop-de-doo.

Yes, if you're a coaster fanboy with zero appreciation for the business/operations side of the equation, yeah, Intamin is just the bee's knees. But if you're someone who looks at the bigger picture, Intamin is a joke and gets by on customers looking for something cheap (that may or may not even work).


Brandon

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Monday, August 5, 2019 2:50 PM
djDaemon's avatar

XS NightClub said:

This new Intamin ride is definitely driving the gate turnstiles, up to 10 hour queues and still getting overwhelming positive reviews on social media.

The 10 hour wait is due to the fact the ride is reportedly operating at less than half capacity. Because, you know, Intamin.


Brandon

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Monday, August 5, 2019 2:51 PM
XS NightClub's avatar

Yes, I’m sure your perspective is the exact same rationale Universal used when they decided to use Intamin.
What a joke.
Stop taking this so personally by the way.

Last edited by XS NightClub, Monday, August 5, 2019 2:52 PM

Sandusky Fan.

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Monday, August 5, 2019 2:55 PM
djDaemon's avatar

It's not a well-kept industry secret that Intamin is one of the go-to's for cheap coasters. That's why Kinzel was so in love with them, because Mr. "People gotta eat" saw little past the immediate bottom line. And that's why CF, under new leadership with a more prudent, long-term mindset, hasn't touched Intamin since.

Look, I get the love for the rides. Some of my favorite rides are Intamin's too. But it's pretty absurd to defend the company, at least the NA division, as anything more than a bargain bin dumpster fire.

Last edited by djDaemon, Monday, August 5, 2019 2:55 PM

Brandon

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Monday, August 5, 2019 3:23 PM
Thabto's avatar

Dvo said:

Sparty42 said:

Intamin loves pushing the envelope, which is great, but not when it comes to the thing that makes the return on investment worth it for the park (which is putting riders in seats to justify initial/maintenance cost).

Putting riders in the seats isn't nearly as important as bringing patrons through the gates. Even if a ride is down for some or all of the day, if the attendance numbers are up, it's a good investment.

But not when those guests are upset and have to be made whole.


Brian
Valravn Rides: 24| Steel Vengeance Rides: 26| Dragster Rollbacks: 1
2021 Visits: 3

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Monday, August 5, 2019 3:56 PM
1000 years of force's avatar

Considering the "issues" with SV and its design problems, RMC seems to make Intamin look like they should be sainted...


"Your persiflage does not amuse. " - Ralph (from Around the world in 80 days)

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Monday, August 5, 2019 5:45 PM

Woulda, coulda, shoulda? Sure, add another 40ft to Top Thrill Dragster. Call it whatever you want, but it has to be sponsored by Extenze Natural Male Enhancement... And she’ll love it, too!

Last edited by Shane Denmark, Monday, August 5, 2019 5:47 PM
But then again, what do I know?
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Monday, August 5, 2019 8:32 PM

djDaemon said:
Yes, if you're a coaster fanboy with zero appreciation for the business/operations side of the equation, yeah, Intamin is just the bee's knees. But if you're someone who looks at the bigger picture, Intamin is a joke and gets by on customers looking for something cheap (that may or may not even work).

This here. I would say about 95% of the coaster fan community doesn't understand this. Or in general, that parks base their capital decisions based off the 99.5% of their market and core demographic (families) and not the .5% of enthusiasts that attend parks. That's why KI is installing a yet unconfirmed giga from B&M and whilst a large percentage of fanboys are already complaining about the unconfirmed and unannounced stats. The real business drivers, the families who buy season passes will eat it up and it'll open with 4-5 hour lines. Sure it may not be a Fury 325 killer in height, speed and length but do you think even 90% of KI's regular guests will care? Nope, only the few of us crazy enough to follow the industry.

End Rant :)

But quality of ride from a mechanical standpoint is huge for parks. And while Intamin she makes exciting rides they don't make the most reliable and they appear to not have the best customer service either. A lot of American parks have really turned away from them.

Same thing with Vekoma. Vekoma has been knocking it out lately in the past 5-7 years or so when you look at their European and China installs. Yet, American parks have a sour taste in their mouth from the poor quality of the massed produced Boomerangs and SLCs. It's sad cause I really would love to see Vekoma make a comeback in the US. I think some of their new looper designs would be great at some of the smaller CF parks like Dorney, Valleyfair, WoF... and don't laugh, Michigan's Adventure. If you haven't seen them lately look up POV videos for Formula-1 (i think) at Energylandia and the coaster Lech.

Last edited by WolfBobs, Monday, August 5, 2019 8:35 PM
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