Civil Coaster War: Millennium Force vs. Intimidator 305 v2.0?!?!

I have been on basically every roller coaster that ranks top 20 in the world according to Golden Ticket Awards. Millennium Force is hands down the best of them all in my opinion. Will there ever be another coaster as great as this one?

My answer is yes, but was changed when they completely ruined Intimidator 305 aka "In-trim-idator 305" due to over heating wheels. I know the coaster wars are over, but might be fueled again if I305 rumor is correct about the new layout that they are currently constructing right now. I don't think it was CF or Intamin's plan that pre-trim I305 would be "that good," and now they are trying to make it even better. Is CF trying to start coaster wars between their own parks? And if so, what is in store for CP in the future?!?! I know financially it would be very stupid, but I am definintely keeping my fingers crossed!

Maybe a "Civil Coaster War" begins in 2012. My guess, CP will definitely prevail!!!

BRcoastrpsycho34 said:
I know financially it would be very stupid, but I am definintely keeping my fingers crossed!

:)

What I don't understand is, instead of adding trims on the downhill section of i305 (worst spot for them btw), why not slow the train before clearing the lift hill. That thing flies over the top. They could have brought it to a near-stop at the top (with a great view too), and achieved the same overall speed by the bottom of the hill.

Whoever came up with the idea of adding trims on downhill runs needs to be smacked, hard.

BRcoastrpsycho34 said:
Is CF trying to start coaster wars between their own parks?

CF installed a type of coaster in a park that lacked one. Nothing more.

It makes absolutely zero (perhaps even negative) sense to start a "who can spend the most money" war within your own company.

MagnumFan said:
...why not slow the train before clearing the lift hill.

Because that would have no effect on the speed of the train at the bottom of the hill.

Explain this new layout thing to me.

You can read what little is known about it here.

Thank you.

BRcoastrpsycho34 said:
Will there ever be another coaster as great as this one?

It existed in that same park for 10 years before Millennium opened.

Disaster Transport? ;)

I have another question... Has anyone else, other than myself, been on I305 pre-trim? And if so, do you agree with me it was a tiny bit better than MF?

Like anything subjective, I'm sure you'll find people that both agree and disagree about which ride is better.

From a simple energy balance perspective, slowing the train to a crawl before it goes over the crest should produce a slower train at the bottom as opposed to one that "flies" over the crest. Both trains gain the same amount of kinetic energy from the reduction of potential energy going down the hill. The train that is flying over the crest, therefore, will have more kinetic energy (velocity - assuming equal mass for both trains) due to its higher starting energy (increased wind drag nothwithstanding).

That's not true. Gravity does not change with the speed of the train. If you don't believe me, check out the episode of Mythbusters where they fire and drop two bullets at the same time. Both hit the ground at exactly the same instant.

BRcoastrpsycho34 said:
I have another question... Has anyone else, other than myself, been on I305 pre-trim? And if so, do you agree with me it was a tiny bit better than MF?

I rode it on media day, and I enjoyed it, but the restraints held it back from being better than Millennium Force. I wanted it to be better, but it just couldn't get there with those restraints.

I misspoke above.

The bigger the hill, the less impact initial velocity has on the maximum velocity of a coaster, as described in the discussion here. So, with a coaster like MF or I305, the lift hill speed will not have significant influence on the speed through the coaster's course.

Jeff said:
That's not true. Gravity does not change with the speed of the train. If you don't believe me, check out the episode of Mythbusters where they fire and drop two bullets at the same time. Both hit the ground at exactly the same instant.

I don't think that demonstration is relevant here. It's true that gravity doesn't care how fast something is going in the horizontal (relative to the force of gravity) direction. However, because that horizontal velocity on a coaster is forcibly transferred (via the track) into downward velocity, the initial velocity is additive, but less so on larger drops.

BRcoastrpsycho34 said:
I have another question... Has anyone else, other than myself, been on I305 pre-trim? And if so, do you agree with me it was a tiny bit better than MF?

Nope.

Went on it after the trims were put in. You deffenatly feel the trims catch on the first drop, but at the same time, you still grey out. It does take a lot away from the ride when you feel the trims on the first drop. Just look at mean streak for an example of this.

I agree that they are needed on the ride, but I would have put them after the first drop. That's exactly what them "may" be doing now.

And in that episode of mythbusters, didn't they fire the bullet horizontally? I'm no physics expert but if one train is being pulled over the hill and starting downward at 12 mph and the other is starting at 2 mph I'm guessing the first will have a higher top speed.

It depends on if 300 feet is enough space for the train to reach terminal velocity.

If it is, then it doesn't matter what the initial speed over the hill is, the train will always attain the same speed.

And also why any coaster that needs to slow down the train (I-305, Mantis, Mean Streak) all use mid hill trims. It effectively shortens the height of the hill and prevents the train from reaching terminal velocity. Something that can't be done by just slowing down the lift chain/cable.

I pretty much agree with everyone's post. I don't think slowing the lift at the crest will help, but I do think it would make the drop better. You go over the top of the hill so fast you don't even have time to think, breathe, or even get a look at the scenery. Oh wait, Doswell has no scenery!!! Now, the only reason they had to put trims on the first drop was the wheels were melting(semi-confirmed). And from what I heard when talking with Clint(KDfansite), those wheels are very very expensive. I can remember picking off shards of blue melted wheel on my first rider t-shirt a week after media day! I wonder if I could have saved the shards of wheel and used it to buy a $4 soda?!?! lol

Jeff, you are spot on about the restraints killing the ride! That's why MF is so amazing. If I305 had the same trains and restraints without breaking your neck/back through the S turns... WOW that would be absolutely amazing! Now I305 with trims is still an awesome ride. They removed the trim from the small bunny hill and it makes the last 2 turns leading into the brake run unbelievavble. Pre-trim they had it slow down on the bunny hill and it killed the last part of the ride.

Anyways, I hope that KD and Intamin have solved this problem and it seems like they have with the construction that is currently going on.

This was the first year I didn't make a trip to CP in 16 years mainly because they built I305 in my backyard and there was NO new attraction at CP(yes, this is a stab at STR). I am going through MF withdrawls right now... The only medicine is watching MF POV clips on youtube!!!

Kyle2154 said:
And in that episode of mythbusters, didn't they fire the bullet horizontally? I'm no physics expert but if one train is being pulled over the hill and starting downward at 12 mph and the other is starting at 2 mph I'm guessing the first will have a higher top speed.

If the speed of the lift was changed from 12mph to 2mph the speed difference would be almost nothing in a frictionless environment. At 2mph initial velocity the final speed would be 94.7mph and at 12mph it would be 95.5mph. That is only a .8% change in speed.

Wouldn't this version be Intimidator 305 v3.0? Version 1 would be orginal. Version 2 would be trims. Version 2.5 would be trims and new restraints. :)