Cedar Point/Cedar Fair Epiphany/Thoughts

It think the number of people who actually make a hobby of going to different amusement parks is such a small percentage of total visitors that similarities just make no difference. Besides CP has many unique aspects that are different from other parks. MF, I 305 and Fury 350 are all different enough anyway.

I don't get the anxiety about similar entrances, etc. Ever hear of the Golden Arches? Nothing wrong with branding, and if a coaster going over the entrance becomes a Cedar Fair design feature, that's great! Lots of parks will have nice entrances then.

Wow, so I'm not the only one..

Like I said, it's not a bad thing, not yet at least. I'm proud of what they've done. If anyone here would have been told about Banshee, Gatekeeper, Fury 325 or Luminosity in 2010. I bet every one of us would have laughed and called for Lemon Chill. Seriously this is amazing new territory in the parks.

But Mystical hit the nail on the head..I'm really worried about the charm and history going away. Sure CP will have a beach, sure KI will have Beast, sure KD will have I305..that's great and all..but will the parks hold an identity. I mean looking at every major capital investment over the past three years they all look so alike. I mean it seriously looks like one guy is putting all the plans together and telling contractors to go do it.

I know it looks great and does do a great job..but I just hope in 10 years down the line..KI isn't a mini CP, and Worlds of Fun isn't a mini CP..

Also..I do think the age of huge crazy thrill rides and coasters is gone...I think it's ganna be the family friendly everyone regardless of disability age, or thrill ride exposure will ride. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Fury can be a speed coaster. Gatekeeper can be a gentle glide through the air next to the lake. Banshee can push hard and keep speed while doing inversion after inversion..

But I do think we'll never see a Maverick again..or a Magnum..I think that age of ridiculous, crazy, hold my beer kind of stuff is gone. As someone up above said, it's a maturing company. Why go crazy hog wild on new untested stuff..B&Ms for instance, tried, tested, true, 100% works, no major issues or dilemmas. I doubt you'll see an i305 where the wheels have to be cooled, trimmed ride, and blackouts galore. I think more gentle stuff is in the works here on out..Not all bad, but, man I'd love to see something in the CF lineup beat Maverick.

I don't think this is end of thrill rides. There's still that rumored dive coaster. I think it will be a nice mix of coasters, thrill rides and family rides from now on being built, instead of a heavy focus on coasters. And with your i305 example, I'm pretty sure the new CF management knows not to work with Intamin anytime in the near future.

The age of huge crazy thrill rides and coasters is gone? I think you're smoking something. Banshee is easily on par with Maverick for thrill, and Fury 325 will give a ride Millennium can't match

Also, at least three people have already told you that people who visit even two CF parks are likely really, really freaking low, and that by far most folks that will be riding "Millenniumy 325" have never, nor will ever ride MF. Stop making the insane postulation that there's some kind of doomsday family infection that will sanitize every CF park with conformity, when in fact it's a sound business model of leveraging existing technology, resources and business partnerships across a national brand.

Next you'll be saying it's stupid that Snoopy makes an appearance at every park, and that those little flags that dot the I's in park logos are destroying your childhood memories.

Banshee was great, but not able to beat Maverick IMO..Two launches, much more airtime, jossled around..to me that's an enthusiast build coaster..Banshee is great, It's possibly my favorite invert, it's a close tie between that and Alpengeist. However I will say, the first drop of Banshee is excellent in the back, then the dive loop..Then until it doesn't do much for me until the zero g roll at the end, that was seriously fantastic.

I know other guests that don't use every last ounce of their platinum pass like some of us here won't notice it. There's probably passholders that go to CP only and have never even touched KI. However, those of us that do, indeed do notice it, clearly again I'm not the only one here who has by reading all of these posts.

It's not a doomsday deal..But being honest, I want CP to be CP, just as I want KI to stay KI. I don't want to see a big open plaza at the front of KI, I want a closed off front end that hides that awesome set of fountains. Again, read the first post, I do love it, and I'm proud, but I can't help but think some individual park identity will be lost a tad over time.

And that's not what I'd say next, not even remotely close, but you can sound like an ass :)

It's close to what you are saying, don't act like it's a quantum leap comparison.

Btw, I did read your first post, and regarding the first paragraph, nobody noticed.

Wow, I come back and you already decide to come out an be an ass as usual..I thought I remembered you..ah well..

But a few others commented that they noticed it..Like I said, it's sweet stuff..I mean I'll take lit midways new shows, and stuff, it's way better than seeing rides after their first year or so poorly lit or just the area looking not even close to new right after. I just hope the parks do maintain their individual charm and not have everything stick to the CF brand of big circle vistas with shrubs and sitting room. I just don't want to see cookie cutter stuff every time the parks invest.

I think your Maverick competition will come when CF starts to deal with RMC!

thedevariouseffect said:

Wow, I come back and you already decide to come out an be an ass as usual..I thought I remembered you..ah well..

You probably shouldn't assume that it's an issue with others.

thedevariouseffect said:

...to me that's an enthusiast build coaster..

(...don't be alarmed.... but amusement parks don't build coasters for enthusiasts.....they build them to draw the general public...)

thedevariouseffect said:
I mean it seriously looks like one guy is putting all the plans together and telling contractors to go do it.

I completely see your point and I agree to an extent.....but....it works fantastically for the parks, and I have no problem with it. Should Cedar Fair continue to build coasters exclusively with B&M, probably not, but it works for them, and I have no problem with B&M. I have never got off any B&M coaster and said, "Wow, this sucks..." The main thing that stands out to me as too similar is their building style, such as their ticket booths, but even that isn't a problem for me.

Not really sure what the point of this thread is. So Cedar Fair buys 5 inferior parks. Starts putting rides into these parks that create the same intensity that makes Cedar Point the greatest amusement park in the world. Attracting more attendance and creating more profit for the company. The point of this thread is that they ruined these parks by branding them into their chain. Do you think they should have just sat on their potential so that CP could spotlight the chain? Cedar Fair now has 7 major parks to showcase instead of 2 or 3. What Carowinds is doing has nothing to do with Millenium or Cedar Point. It involves bringing people to the park to make money off them. To me that's a good thing. The only thing comparable to me is that you sit down in a seat to ride them. Gatekeeper and Fury 325 have only one thing in common. They interact with the entrance of the park.

Cedar Fair is an expanding company. They are building rides that have worked in the past to increase profit at parks that don't have these rides. Until someone else can come along and do it better why should they do it any different. And in the same they are creating a better family based experience at Cedar Point that the other parks had a step up on them. Look at the Gemini midway additions last year. KI had built that ride a long time ago. I didn't ride it at KI. But I liked it when I did ride it. They're regional parks. And to not build 300+ ft. rides or ones that interact with their entrance wouldn't make any sense. Doesn't mean that their all cookie cutter parks without an identity.

My own opinion is that people get upset that Cedar Fair has branched out and isn't just about Cedar Point anymore. Cedar Point already has it all as far as thrills. It's time that these other parks catch up. And as an investor I would much rather see the money spent away from CP because the return will be so much better. How many more people could CP actually draw with a new gigacoaster? Aren't the people interested in that already at the park?

Kevinj said:
Ridiculous isn't the word. It was downright asinine!

You'd almost think it was intentional if you didn't know any better.

Oh yeah, you got jokes. Silly me, I forgot...
:^)

The fact that Maverick is even compared to Banshee is completely silly in my eyes.

See, I'm with you on this one redsfan. However, I think the concern is (or at least what I think the point of this topic is): how is Cedar Point going to keep up with the thrills if the focus is more on other parks? Yes, we have all of the thrills NOW, but as things progress in the future, say, TTD might just be a mediocre ride at best in the GP eye.

I honestly don't have a fear for Cedar Point's future. It's sometimes hard to imagine what it will look like, but as it has been said before "roller coasters will always be in our future". Cedar Fair will just continue doing what is best for their company to draw more attention to their parks nationwide.

I reread the entire thread to find some type of understanding as to what the real issue is. I think maybe I might have come to some understanding as to what it's all about. I myself have only been to KI and CP. It's been roughly 30 years since my first visits. KI is under it's 3rd parent company since then and things have changed dramaticly at both parks. Not to mention the technology that has improved since I was 3 foot tall. I only get a platinum pass every other year. Seems the only years I pass close to Kings Dominion, Carowinds, or Dorney are in the odd years. Has a little to do with budgeting. Anyways, now I see that your major concern isn't about the rides Cedar Fair is installing at all. Your a huge Maverick fan. Me too, one of the best coasters I've ridden. Myself, I'm a lot more nostalgic and love riding the Adventure Expresses, Racers, and Beasts. Only a month till KI opens and I get to ride Banshee for the 1st time.

So here is what I've concluded.

Park Entrances: With new technology and old infastructure a need has arose for new park gates. Fiberoptics, etc. Cedar Point has replaced 2 of their 4 gates in the last 5 years. And I'd say the marina gate will be replaced soon. Carowinds has the same issues. Carowinds also needed something new to draw new attendance. Builds a coaster that looks to be better than Millenium. Incorporates the same type of main entrance plaza redesign that CP recently applied with GateKeeper. Although Fury 325 goes under a bridge in front of the park, as Gatekeeper inverts over the entrance. I do believe Carowinds is actually expanding their parks acreage by expanding a little though. You see the need to replace existing gates in 2 very different projects as copying. Primarily in my opinion because the flagship park did it first.

Ride Ques, Signage, Plaza's: It just so happens that when large companies do business with other large companies that their is a mutual interest in not just landing a single contract, but to be the sole provider to the company. If I were in the signage business I wouldn't want to build a single sign for Maverick. I would want to be Cedar Fair's only signage solution. This also works well for both sides. Repeat business is cheaper. If I were in the business I'd sell my signs cheaper knowing that they are going to want more. Keeping their business becomes more important than the $1000 you drop from your price. Or the $10 per que rail you drop because you know your going to sell a hell of a lot more rails by doing business with them.

So this is what I've come up with. You ride Maverick and then Banshee. You see a sign built by the same company. The same Que rails running back and forth past the same people in line. Just like Maverick's que. Maybe through a structure that remained from Son of Beast. Just like Maverick. When your done you go and sit on a bench and it's the same style bench that CP has at their park. It gets dark and the new LED lighting packages incorporated at KI come on. You go and ride Vortex. Another red coaster just like Maverick.

I think the offseason has been too long for you and you just need to go ride some coasters.

Here's the thing: while some (but certainly not all) coaster enthusiasts may notice similar signage and similar rails and similar benches... the vast, vast .... vast.. majority of any park's guests won't. That said, there's no reason not to use the same signage, rails, benches or what have you.

Just as a side note, Canada's Wonderland made the jets that sit in the queue lines for all the Paramount parks' Top Gun rides. We have an amazing fibreglass shop, apparently and we did have an in-house built log flume for a while. I wouldn't be surprised if Wonderland was also making these new signs/statues that are popping up at the Cedar Fair parks (Leviathan, GateKeeper, Banshee, and Fury 325) and that would explain the similarities there.

Nope, those signs are outsourced. Here's an article about Banshee's:

http://issuu.com/signbuilderillustrated/docs/sign_builder_illustrat...%2F8767946

Kevinj said:

At least the park in Florida has that big golf ball ride that no one else does, but I'm sure it's being considered in California now that they see how popular it is.

It was considered back in the late 1980s-early 90s when Disney wanted to build an Epcot of the West in the Disneyland parking lot, Westcot. The idea quickly got scrapped after many people in town disliked the proposal. Soon the idea for another park started, which is now California Adventure.

I guess the root of my concern is, right now some of these new additions, like Gatekeepers new entrance..it was it's own, it was unique and just damn near perfect.

Now that other parks have it, it's being replicated..It kinda loses it's luster to me, it's becoming generic. That's a term I don't want to associate with any of the parks, especially Cedar Point.