Cedar Point/Cedar Fair Epiphany/Thoughts

Copying from somewhere else I post. Just a few thoughts that ran through my head over the past few days...See what others think and see if anyone else had the same feelings regarding the futures of the parks, specifically ours..Also sorry to be dormant on here for quite so long. Obviously by the way you'll see this post, Carowinds has been the center of my attention in the coaster world as of late.

So coaster enthusiast rant up ahead...May sound entitled or whatever it's not completely meant to be..

I'm all for new coasters and rides in the park, I want to go enjoy something new and vibrant every year, if it was the same I'd wouldn't have reason to go as frequent other than to enjoy the nostalgic timeless favorites. However..there's a new stance Cedar Fair over the past three years or so and it seems to be a trend. It's a great, trend, but it's also bittersweet.

I'm all for plazas, vistas, shiny new vibrant paint, walkways, music, and new entertainment. However, make it feel original, like it's exclusive, it's special, it's here and here only. There's a feeling you get walking up to Maggie at CP and knowing this was the first, that the queues played time period music, the station is old and "futuristic" minus those pesky columns. That the sign for Millie was huge to match the ride, the first of it's kind. That Maverick tried to be as western as you can on Lake Erie while occupying the site of a great Arrow Flume.

However, seeing Carowinds, I'm excited for that park. For years before I heralded it as the Cedar Point of the south. The second park to ever maybe be considered a Flagship if they wanted it to be. Now, it rings way too true. The front entrance is Gatekeeper esque. The Fury plaza is so close to Gatekeeper, or in newer essence Banshee. The plazas and walkways seem to have a similar feeling. The rides even mimic each other. Fury is being called the B&M Millie at Carowinds.

The parks all had their own feel. Cedar Point in the past was known as the teenage/young adult enthusiast, crazy thrills, no hold back park. Kings Island was the family friendly Brady Bunch park with alot of woods and blue ice cream. Carowinds was southern hospitality with thrill rides and beautiful Charlotte nextdoor.

Now, all the parks seem to be following the new Cedar Point model. The parks now seem to have a Cedar Fair cookie cutter and apply them everywhere they can. It looks great, it gets the job done. The rides, designs, and parks are more beautiful than they have been in years. For those who were Cedar Point nuts like me, seeing Giant Wheel in 2012 with a complete new set of lights, and a Live E stage for an all night after closing party with a live DJ was unheard of and perfect.

However, in getting many improvements, fixes, and doing it right. It's paid off, enthusiasts like me are happy. We enjoy that the parks listened, and took our gripes and said, say no more, we're doing it. But at what price does the parks personality and individual special exclusivity when it comes to future improvements and attractions? Why can't we have new front entrance for Carowinds, and it not be like Cedar Point? When can Kings Island get a childrens area that doesn't mimic the overhaul done on the Gemini midway at Cedar Point last season. When will California's Great America not get a pavillion that looks like the Breakers expansion or the front gates mentioned already?

Now again, I'm not trying to sound entitled, I know the perception is def. there and I know I'll have disagreements. However, I'm all for family friendly fun at all the parks. Families bring in the largest capital investment the parks want to acquire. Plus they should have things there for them to enjoy. The kids areas needed it for years. The midways needed things for families to sit and eat and make memories together. The convenience of dining plans for people making this a once a year vacation is a great deal.

But why does catering to the money making demographic mean no more crazy outlandish enthusiast boundary pushing rides and attractions? Why does that mean the midways all look the same? Why does that mean the front gate where I swipe my pass feels like passing under Gatekeeper? Why will we see no more Mavericks? No more Magnum XL-200's. No more Vortex's? No more Intimidator 305s?

It's bittersweet to me it really is. I'm proud of what the parks have become. I'm proud to see happy employees helping families make long lasting sometimes lifelong memories. I'm happy to see the parks rides lit up shining from miles away on highways and bright gorgeous midways...But I feel like the parks are becoming a brand. The Cedar Fair brand is big huge rides, family fun, bright lights, and well tended and spacious vistas. Carowinds officially now is the Cedar Point of the south. Or, just another park in the Cedar Fair brand.

Again, not to sound entitled or whatever..just..it's all melting together now, nothing is sticking out as a one and only, can only see it here kind of deal. I shouldn't have to call Fury the Millie of B&M or Carowinds...The fact that's even said presents the fact that the branding has already happened. The worst part of that though, is I love it, but I am worried to see where it goes..

Cedar Fair parks are regional for the most part. Them giving similar offerings at all their parks is a good thing. Many families can be tight budgeted, so they don't need to travel as far to get a fairly similar experience. However, what separates CP from the rest of the chain is the resorts and the beach.

Yes, they're regional parks. Most visitors of Cedar Point have never been to Carowinds or ever stop there for that matter. And the same for others parks in the chain.

thedevariouseffect said:

There's a feeling you get walking up to Maggie at CP and knowing this was the first...

...it's a feeling that by and large only enthusiasts will have.

Now, all the parks seem to be following the new Cedar Point model.

I love unique and distinctive. When I drive to Cedar Point from Chicago, I usually bypass the toll road and take route 6. I enjoy passing through the small towns and dining at local diners and drive-ins and dives. That said, I have no complaints with Cedar Fair homogenizing the parks somewhat.

It looks great, it gets the job done.

Then it achieves its goal.

But why does catering to the money making demographic mean no more crazy outlandish enthusiast boundary pushing rides and attractions?

Does it? It's entirely possible Cedar Fair is taking a few years to introduce more broadly attractive attractions rather than boundary-pushing rides and attractions; that doesn't necessarily mean the company won't introduce such rides and attractions in the future.

Why does that mean the front gate where I swipe my pass feels like passing under Gatekeeper?

The vast majority of any CF park guests won't be comparing the front gate of the park they're entering to other CF parks. Why not reproduce a demonstrably functional, efficient gate design?

I shouldn't have to call Fury the Millie of B&M or Carowinds...The fact that's even said presents the fact that the branding has already happened.

You don't have to call Fury the Millie of Carowinds. A descriptive shortcut for enthusiasts doesn't equal a chain-wide branding.

I've had the same feeling - the parks seem to resemble each other. While I do praise Cedar Fair for taking what works and rolling with it (very good business model), it loses some of the uniqueness of each park. Unfortunately, only a small portion of the visiting population will notice these changes and thus, allow the debauchery to continue.

On the plus side, we haven't seen any "clones" of rides from Cedar Point to anywhere else (albeit Raptor).

Fingers crossed for Cedar Point's next addition.

PS: I hate FunTV. Despise it. Much too communist for my liking. Deploying it chain-wide leads me to believe the people like it. I guess I just loved the plain music from the DJs and the true interactivity with him. Sigh.

I actually like Fun TV. It keeps people entertained while waiting in line. Waiting can be boring without something keeping you entertained.

I like Fun TV. But I like the DJ in MF line too. I'm not quite sure how Fun TV is communist or what that's even suppose to mean haha.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I recall hearing something, that Fun TV will be more interactive in the coming season such as you can text a request. It could've just been someone here posting an idea.

If reuse of existing structures or other designs bothers you, definitely don't go to Dorney. Once in the gate, it feels awfully familiar, if not reversed.

Then again, the percentage of people walking through the gate who have been to both is probably a rounding error at best.

I totally get what you're saying. From our perspective (those who follow multiple parks) they all seem really similar. And I absolutely agree that it can be sad to see them all becoming so similar. BUT... That image they're creating isn't identical, none of the parks are Cedar Fair Carowinds and such, they have different collections of rides and food offerings, and totally different marketing. But they're all representative of the CF brand to an extent. And that is a very clean, beautiful, and striking brand image. I'm of the opinion it's for the better.

If you want something that feels way different, try Canada's Wonderland. 150ft mountain centrepiece (with three coasters interacting with it, a nightly show projected on it, and a dive show off it's waterfalls), tons of forests, Medieval themed area (with Arthur's Baye and a different dive show), interactive dark ride/coaster combo, all kinds of awesome/unique flat rides, and a much different front gate (albeit with metal detectors). The best part is Leviathan (B&M's first giga coaster) was actually well themed to its location in Medieval Faire. The plaza may be similar, but that is just a pretty simple layout and I believe the first to get a really well done statue (fountain, in our case) in the Cedar Fair chain.

I'll admit that Carowinds may have taken a bit too much from Cedar Point's entrance, but they clearly separate themselves with that Southern hospitality, as seen with their new menu items of traditional Southern dishes, and their focus on marking the state line. Banshee has a graveyard in it's queue and the station has an eerie colour palette to suit the ride.

One thing to remember is that the former Paramount parks started out with some decent theming for the most part, but Paramount gave them garbage for years and couldn't care less about themed areas. Cedar Fair has been trying since they bought the parks to really establish each park as it's own while still bringing them up to company standards (and industry standards. Wonderland's tallest coasters before they took over were a Vekoma Boomerang and an SLC...). The parks have more or less reached that standard now, and with Matt Ouimet in charge, prepare for more individual touches and possibly more dark rides. :P

Seriously, though, look at the parks that have been getting a lot of attention recently before and after Cedar Fair owned them (and before and after Ouimet/Kinzel). Knott's Berry Farm is starting to get a lot of attention, focussing on dark rides (they are in California after all) including Timber Mountain Log Ride, Voyage to the Iron Reef, and more. Wonderland has been focussing on bringing back some traditional theming and stories (like a dragon in the mountain). Cedar Point has needed more family/intermediate rides and areas, and especially nicer midways, so that's what they've been getting. There needs to be both balance and charm, and it takes a long time to get there.

I've read interviews where Matt Ouimet has said he recognizes the need to walk around the individual parks to get the charm of each one specifically, and based on that he likes to come up with a five or ten year plan. He hasn't been in charge long enough for those plans to really shine through just yet, as the former five year plans have just now run out. Give it another five years, and the complaints/comparisons will be far fewer, I'm sure.

I've never really had the 'Carowinds is the flagship park of the south' vibe from Cedar Fair. For some reason, I just can't feel that while they have 2 Vekoma cookie cutters in the heart of the park. I just look at it as all Cedar Fair parks receiving attention in areas that haven't been appealing for years.

They may not have said it outright (though I thought I recall hearing CF mention Carowinds as the "Cedar Point of the South"), but the enormous checks they've been writing the last 5 (or so) years certainly suggest the company views the park as their flagship of the South.

I often wonder how much say each park gets in terms of planning and design of new attractions and improvements. Are the parks just "handed" things from above or do they have an active hand in the planning? I'd imagine general managers provide their input but most additions still have the "Cedar Fair look" regardless of the park. Broadly speaking it feels like Knott's Berry Farm has seen the most distinctly unique additions in recent years, particularly in terms of the themed attractions, which probably has a lot to do with its history and location in Southern California.

I get what you're saying... I think what we're witnessing is a shift in the way Cedar Fair thinks of itself.

If you blindfold someone and drop them in the middle of a Starbucks, they'll instantly know they're at a Starbucks when you take the blindfold off.

Same with Panera Bread, Barnes and Noble, Wal-Mart, Etc... Each location may be different, but they all share the same general design asthetic.

That's what's happening with Cedar Fair It started out as Frankenstein's Monster. All of these individual parks stiched together into one larger whole. Now we're going to see standardization, process replication, and design commonalities.

The day is coming when you'll be able to be dropped into the middle of any Cedar Fair park and know instantly that it's owned by them, even if you've never been there. (And not just by the employee shirts).

That's not a bad thing. It's the sign of a maturing company. You take what works from every park and replicate it across the others.

It's possible to do this without losing those little charms. For example... Wal-Mart in Mansfield carries Jones Potato Chips. You can't buy them in other areas of the state though. Those chips are a local legend.

The challenge for Cedar Fair is going to be keeping the charm and history of each park intact while still creating the economies of scale that go with being a large company.

Note: Numerous edits maded for grammar / spelling.

djDaemon said:
They may not have said it outright (though I thought I recall hearing CF mention Carowinds as the "Cedar Point of the South"), but the enormous checks they've been writing the last 5 (or so) years certainly suggest the company views the park as their flagship of the South.

dj, I believe I read the same thing in terms of their revenue. I guess I wasn't thinking like that though. Rather, I was thinking in terms of what they actually have to offer. But, if it's bringing in the money, all the better, right? I'm actually in the process right now of searching for a list of each Cedar Fair park's revenue and see who brings in the most and the least.

It's always bothered me how much Disneyland and Disneyworld look and feel so much alike. Take a look. They both have castles, similar rides, and even the font they use on a lot of their signs is so similar. I heard that their parks overseas have also considered putting in castles and "haunted mansion" type rides. At least the park in Florida has that big golf ball ride that no one else does, but I'm sure it's being considered in California now that they see how popular it is.

Props to Disney for making more Star Wars, but this cookie-cutter copying of stuff in parks really gets old fast. Sorry to hear it's happening with Cedar Fair to.

I dont even have a response for that Disney comment, it's so wrong in so many ways it's ridiculous.

This discussion is really about what's called branding. You find it everywhere you go and it's not a bad thing.

And Jeff's right, the overlap of customers is small. So small, in fact, I'd wager even those who are complaining here about how Cedar Fair is passing off all of Cedar Point's fabulous features to other properties have never been to all of the other parks.

Ridiculous isn't the word. It was downright asinine!

You'd almost think it was intentional if you didn't know any better.

RCMAC said:

This discussion is really about what's called branding. You find it everywhere you go and it's not a bad thing.

Agreed... I don't want to start an argument over semantics when we're on the same page. I just feel that some of it goes deeper than branding (ie: park operations).

Ideally we should be able to go to any Cedar Fair park and encounter identical rules, policies, and processes.

For example... Last season at King's Island you could re-scan your pass for entry. You didn't need to get your hand stamped. That wasn't the case at Cedar Point. Ideally the parks should have the same policy.

It's a lot better than it used to be. You can tell CF is working on it. I don't count that sort of thing as branding, but it still is part of the "movement towards consistency" that is being discussed.

...And no... It's not a bad thing. Not at all.