Cedar Point Removing Good Times Theatre

Luminosity is where it is, because that is the biggest midway space in the park. There really isn't a larger space for that show unless they create a hole somewhere.

As for the ice show, or any other kind of show, there are some under-utilized spaces in the park that could be renovated into show venues that would be a more appropriate size than the old Cinema. There are two large spaces in the Pavilion that seem to be underused...both the dining room, and the convention hall upstairs. Both were badly renovated when the air conditioning was installed, but with purpose and the removal of some ugly 1970's acoustical tile, either one could be a really nice space. In fact, I wonder if some renovation of the dining room isn't already planned in conjunction with the new catering pavilions.

Then there is the ballroom over the Coliseum. Access is a bit of a problem, but not an unsolvable one. As a bonus, that space hasn't been frosted over with acoustical tile. The bandstand is a bit small, but it could be a much nicer venue than the current Jack Aldrich (Centennial) space.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Kind of sad to see the IMAX theatre go, but, not the Cedars. I lived in Cedars during IMAX's first year. I've got just 2 distinct memories from living in Cedars. Had a room 1 year that faced the railroad. We'd shoot bottle rockets out the window that would explode ride over the guard shack for the railroad gate. Pissed off the CP Police, but we never got caught. I did have to go see the Chief a couple times a summer, though, for speeding on Perimeter Road in a company truck. My other memory was August 8, 1974. I watched President Nixon resign in the Cedars TV lounge.

Oh my god, I had to have been standing next to you. I also watched that resignation on the Cedar's tv.

I have better memories I guess. I loved the old building, the breezeways, the post office, and most of all direct access to the park anytime. (which came in handy just about every night for stumbling back to the dorm from the Circus) And I could give myself 5 minutes to get to work in the morning if I had to.
I was also lucky that I got to room with my best friend in a large room that was only a double. We weren't the best housekeepers though, we'd sweep huge piles of sand out of our room only about once a month.
Our room faced the midway and the Bayern Kurve's horn woke me up every morning. I could sit up in my top bunk and see the Schwabinchen hold her hat as she twirled on the other side of the backdrop.

I for one will be sad someday to see the Cedars go. Not only for my own memories, but simply because the place is so old. Part of the Cedars Hotel actually outdates the Breakers by just a few years. It was the Breakers Express of its day, you might say.

Jeff said:

Super Stew said:
If you're talking the big commercial fireworks, the only real issue is making sure people are far enough away to not pose a safety threat. The general rule of thumb is that for every 1 inch of shell (mortar), the spectators have to be at least 70 feet away ...

I'm guessing you haven't been to Magic Kingdom lately.

Not in 6 years ... I take it that's not the protocol they follow given the fact they've had 2 fires in the last year due to firework sparks ?? I know accidents can happen, but for a place that's set the bar higher than anyone else, it's hard to believe they could overlook something as simple as making sure there wasn't any kind of flammable material in an area where it could be ignited by fireworks - not once, but twice !

Not sure any of it matters in relation to CP anyhow (unless of course they would make the same mistake), because as we all know, there's Disney, and then there's the rest of the world ...

The numbers I cited are the guidelines WE as a company are suppose to be in compliance with. Most of the time we are. I don't know if it's universally across the board or not ... If Disney or whoever is doing something different, then I guess they either have their own set of rules, or they're just doing whatever they want.

Orlando Mike said:

Ya, I'm thinking shooting off fireworks over a few hundered boats loaded with gas isn't the safest idea.....

They're also shooting them off over THOUSANDS of cars loaded with gas, so that argument really doesn't fly ... Beside that, some of the biggest fireworks shows on earth are fired right from "boats".

Who is shooting off Fireworks over "thousands of cars"? As for shooting off fireworks off a "boat"... a barge specifically built to handle that circumstance is quite a bit different than launching pyro over a few hundred un-attended boats, a restaurant, and a road that connects the back of the park with the front. I just dont see CP moving the pyro launching area to the marina area of the park. As far as Disney goes, you are correct, they are different, they take safety to the extreme, and even they have had two small fires in the past year due to fallout.

Who's shooting off fireworks over cars ?? Well without trying to split hairs, how about CP for starters ... Sure, they're not launching them from directly beside parked vehicles, but once the shells are in the air, that qualifies as being "over them" from a sense that there's potential for fallout in the general vicinity on anything underneath ... You can compensate by angling the tubes and firing from a distance all you want, but when taking into account the any given 1,000 - 1,200 foot plus spread in every direction, trajectory, the wind, and the over-all unpredictability of the mortars themselves, all bets are off as to where debris can end up ... So using your hypothetical, if there's an automobile with a fuel leak or a gas cap left open in one of the lots, and down comes part of a shell with a hot spark still on it ...... I guess we have a situation.

Just so we're not misunderstanding each other here, I'm not saying they SHOULD move the launch area ... What I said was that if there's enough of a safety buffer, then it's feasible the blast zone COULD be moved, boats or not.

Most fireworks displays I've seen have plenty of debris that fall when the shells explode. Even if fires were not a concern, CP would get plenty of complaints from boat owners if the debris falls on the boats. They already get complaints about the ash from the train when it warms up in the morning and the wind is blowing in the right direction.

In the immediate blast zone, yes, you are correct ... Obviously, the farther you are away, the less debris and other issues.

Once here in Columbus we sat downwind of our huge annual fireworks display and couldn't have been sorrier. It got to where we couldn't even look up without debris (ashes?) going in our eyes. As it got worse, people (including us) started to flee to avoid being pelted. It was noxious, painful, and the next morning in the shower there was a horrible stench of sulfur, or gunpowder, or something being rinsed from our skin and hair.

For the record, we were about a half mile away from ground zero. The fireworks, like a lot of cities, are downtown and shot from the top of a large 3 story building amidst hundreds of thousands of people and probably half that many cars. Cities like Louisville send their display from barges on the river and off of the bridges, once again amidst all kinds of human activity and proximity to buildings downtown.

The you've got your Kings Island who sets their fireworks off from a remote location behind the park and shut down rides in the vicinity as a safety precaution.

Exactly ! Sometimes these things just don't go according to plan no matter what safey measures or precautions are in place.

The precautions at Magic Kingdom are epic. The bulk of the stuff is launched from a small enclosed area directly north beyond the train tracks on the perimeter road. They spend a lot of time irrigating the trees back there, I'm guessing for a few hours every evening. For the Christmas and Halloween events, they also launch from various points around park in small quantities. While they close the road right outside of the main launch area, I've had stuff fall on my car in the area around the monorail/train workshop.

The real issue is the stuff they launch from on top of the buildings within the park. The buildings used for Peter Pan, Philharmagic, Pooh and the princess hall is what they're using. I believe they use "cold pyro," which doesn't burn as hot, but you know, it still burns. They irrigate the roofs of those buildings as well, to the point where you will get wet in certain places down by Columbia Harbor House. They also have dudes patrolling the back midway during the show looking for debris, though I'm not sure what exactly they would do if they found a problem. I've always found it odd that thousands of people are roaming about back there so close to the fireworks. They don't water down Seven Dwarfs or the Little Mermaid building, so it's not entirely surprising that they caught fire.

RCMAC said:

Oh my god, I had to have been standing next to you. I also watched that resignation on the Cedar's tv.

Oh geez, so was I, small world isn't it.

Wow, very interesting that they would let those buildings dry ... Are they off in the distance far enough to where they would not be considered a hazzard, as such ??

Dutchman said:

RCMAC said:

Oh my god, I had to have been standing next to you. I also watched that resignation on the Cedar's tv.

Oh geez, so was I, small world isn't it.

"Hi! What'cher name? What'cher major? Where ya from?"

What are the odds that there are three of us here, these many years later, that were employees back on that exact day. Since this is a fan-specific site maybe not so slim, but I'm still a little freaked out about it.

When we all meet someday I'll tell you the stories of how I tried to get MYself fired. From standing up through the entire course on the last train of Blue Streak (we did that all the time), to coming out dead drunk from the Ballroom after a thursday night dance and passing out in the grassy area in the center of Cedar Downs. Then there were late night beach activities that aren't suitable to print here.

Super Stew said:

Wow, very interesting that they would let those buildings dry ... Are they off in the distance far enough to where they would not be considered a hazzard, as such ??

I don't think that they spray them, but I guess I've never been over there during the show. 7DMT is across the midway from Pooh, and Mermaid is on the north side of Mine Train, so they're both plenty close.

From the looks of that map, along with the photos, video and description from the incidents, I don't think there were actually any "buildings" per say, involved ... It appears that 7DMT's fire was more in the middle of the ride in perhaps a grassy area; And LM, the article states that it was "artificial foilage" ... That's obviously a prop or decoration of some sort ... Regardless, it's easy to see how it could've ignited ...

I suppose there has to be a cutoff at some point as far as irrigation and watering things down ... I know we try to do it every chance we get, especially if we're shooting right next to a highly wooded area and it's been really dry. There's usually a hose truck on site that takes care of it for us ... If we're in an open area or field (which is most of the time) where there isn't a lot of houses or structures to worry about, then it's not as big of a deal; However the fire extinguisher does tend to wind up seeing its fair share of action ... lol

Are they taking down the Good Times Theatre for sure? If not they could put an interactive Theatre like Triotech in there.

Looks like it's a done deal. May as well call it the GoodBye Theatre instead.

7DMT is one big artificial mountain of vegetation as best I can tell. But of course they went the extra mile, too. There are "rock" areas of the ride that were irrigated for months for the purpose of getting moss to grow.

Super Stew said:
Now I haven't seen one of their shows in person, but judging from photos, it looks like CP uses up to 10 inch in size; Therefore, you would need a little over 2 football fields length in all directions ...

The pyro that Cedar Point shoots on a nightly basis is 1.4G close proximity pyro, nothing larger than probably a 60mm mine. When they outsource their 4th of July Fireworks, Zambelli may use shells as large as 10”, but the park itself does not use any actual shells for their daily operations. When they do shoot for the 4th, all the guns are on the beach and angled out over the lake. The parking lot along the fence line is sectioned off and no one is allowed to park there.

Super Stew said:

I know accidents can happen, but for a place that's set the bar higher than anyone else, it's hard to believe they could overlook something as simple as making sure there wasn't any kind of flammable material in an area where it could be ignited by fireworks - not once, but twice !

The only real time anything in the park has potential to come in contact with any pyro fallout from the main firing site is if the wind is out of the north. Which oddly enough, does not happen that often during the course of the year. If the wind is out of the north then technically everything inside the Magic Kingdom could be considered a flammable material. The Fireworks Team takes a lot of factors into consideration when the wind is out of the north before agreeing to go ahead with show.

Jeff said:
The precautions at Magic Kingdom are epic. The bulk of the stuff is launched from a small enclosed area directly north beyond the train tracks on the perimeter road. They spend a lot of time irrigating the trees back there, I'm guessing for a few hours every evening. For the Christmas and Halloween events, they also launch from various points around park in small quantities. While they close the road right outside of the main launch area, I've had stuff fall on my car in the area around the monorail/train workshop.

The main firing site is just where you described it and the road (Floridian Way) is closed just before show time. Depending on the time of year the entire wooded area around there is watered down for a few hours in the afternoon and evening. If the wind is steady in a direction where the woods are not watered down, Reedy Creek fire department will come out and water it all down. Pyro fallout in the Disney University parking lot is common, happens all of the time. So much so that any of those roads, parking lots back there have signs that tell you to park at your own risk due to pyro fallout.

The real issue is the stuff they launch from on top of the buildings within the park. The buildings used for Peter Pan, Philharmagic, Pooh and the princess hall is what they're using. I believe they use "cold pyro," which doesn't burn as hot, but you know, it still burns. They irrigate the roofs of those buildings as well, to the point where you will get wet in certain places down by Columbia Harbor House. They also have dudes patrolling the back midway during the show looking for debris, though I'm not sure what exactly they would do if they found a problem. I've always found it odd that thousands of people are roaming about back there so close to the fireworks. They don't water down Seven Dwarfs or the Little Mermaid building, so it's not entirely surprising that they caught fire.

There really isn’t much of an issue with the pyro that is shot inside the park. It is all 1.4G close proximity pyro and is more than enough feet away from the guests. None of it is cold pyro, same stuff you will see at any of the stage shows or over at Universal and Cedar Point. The “Spotters” they use for Wishes are all in radio contact with the person shooting the pyro so if something were to happen, they can immediately stop the pyro on the rooftops. They also have the ability to stop certain pyro during show based on winds instead of stopping all pyro. Little Mermaid is now watered down each night but Seven Dwarfs is still dry. Its not common for pyro to make it all the way to Seven Dwarfs from the main firing site or from the rooftops. It is all suppose to burn out before reaching those locations. Now on a high wind night when the pyro will move faster across the sky, that is when they will start deciding what pyro to cut for the scenario of burning debris coming into the park.

Hope that all made sense. Feel free to ask anything else regarding Disney or Cedar Point pyro.