Arrow and CP(Conspiracy?)
I dont know, but from looking at Arrow coasters that were made after Magnum I am beginning to believe that Arrow and CP are out to crush the competition parks(Premier,Kennywood). How do they perfect a coaster like Magnum and then build coasters later like SP at Kennywood? You would think that a coaster designed by them would recieve better ratings after Magnum but instead are considered headache,rough,backproblem machines that should be removed. It makes no sense to me. Am I the only one that sees this?
I continue to believe that Magnum was a good "mistake." Arrow made a lot of nice mine train coasters, and a few decent suspended coasters, but has largely failed with almost everything else in the last ten to fifteen years. With the exception of Magnum, anything big has been a disaster in the long run... a mess of trim brakes and re-profiles (and Magnum has both of these as well).
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
"And he says 'I'm goin' crazy up there at the lake...'"
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
"And he says 'I'm goin' crazy up there at the lake...'"
Dont forget the Gemini, Jeff....Those are the only two exceptions out of all of their coasters that have preserved well.
I consider Gemini to be a big mine train. Well, come to think of it, Magnum isn't far from being one either.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
"And he says 'I'm goin' crazy up there at the lake...'"
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
"And he says 'I'm goin' crazy up there at the lake...'"
Arrow coasters at CP are once again, good mistakes. If you look at the countless Arrow multi-loopers that came after Magnum in the '90's, you will see reports them being rough or just "average" Unfourtuatley, a sad toll of this is the tearing of nearby Kennywood Park's Steel Phantom on Labor Day this year...at least I have Magnum
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Brian Z.
Hometown parks: Kennywood, Cedar Point!
18 days until The Force
I think CP has better ride maintinance than other parks too. They keep their coasters running for a long time.
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"Who needs drugs when you have Cedar Point."
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"Who needs drugs when you have Cedar Point."
It's been said that "It seems as if Arrow designers were guessing all along." I'd have to say that with the help of CP's R&D department and luck of the odds, CP came up with two winners by Arrow. Everyone else gambled and all they got was...Desperado. Fitting that it's located near a casino...-------------
-Dave Kochman
Pittsburgh
-Dave Kochman
Pittsburgh
I think the Corkscrew is a nice Arrow multilooper as well. It's not as long, or as tall, as later Arrow rides, but it's a lot of fun and fairly smooth. The airtime over the second hill is a feature that is missing from most loopers made by any manufacturer, and makes the ride a lot of fun.
I recall corkscrew being pretty darn rough. pretty close behind MS.
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Welcome back Millennium Force riders...We all want to know how was your RIDE!!!!!
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Welcome back Millennium Force riders...We all want to know how was your RIDE!!!!!
Gemini is definitely a big twin track mine ride. Just look at the construction -- steel tubular track on wooden supports, fairly open cars...
Corkscrew is somewhat rough for such a small coaster.
Don't forget that Kennywood DOES know maintenance. At least on wooden coasters -- you don't keep coasters like Jackrabbit and Racer running so well for so long without knowing what you're doing.
I like Steel Phantom, and I'll miss it (it's sad to see a record-breaker go), but it's a testimony for what Arrow did wrong in the early 90's. Rough construction, crude transitions (IMHO at least).
Magnum was a happy mistake, and even that had its share of problems. It's the ultimate mine train ride, though...
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--Greg
http://www.pobox.com/~gregleg/
Corkscrew is somewhat rough for such a small coaster.
Don't forget that Kennywood DOES know maintenance. At least on wooden coasters -- you don't keep coasters like Jackrabbit and Racer running so well for so long without knowing what you're doing.
I like Steel Phantom, and I'll miss it (it's sad to see a record-breaker go), but it's a testimony for what Arrow did wrong in the early 90's. Rough construction, crude transitions (IMHO at least).
Magnum was a happy mistake, and even that had its share of problems. It's the ultimate mine train ride, though...
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--Greg
http://www.pobox.com/~gregleg/
Vortex at pki is an arrow.It is my favorite steel corkscrew looper and it is very smooth. if this was a mistake it sure turned out to be really fun. ;););)
I don't think Arrow would want to shoot themselves in the foot like that Chitown, eliminating the posibility of working with other parks. That would be a real mistake. As far as SP vs Magnum goes, it's simple...OTSRs. As for Vortex, you will notice that they stop the trains on the halfway point, and that is why it isn't too rough. I like Vortex too. =)
I think that most, if not all the Point's Arrows are good. Most, if not all, have been changed from when they opened. All are also a bit rough. Not as smooth as B&M, Vekoma, or Intimin, but smooth for a Arrow coaster.
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Millennium Force will be the next to sink!
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Millennium Force will be the next to sink!
magnum is smooth especially since its sinking. sorry had to do it.
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Welcome back Millennium Force riders...We all want to know how was your RIDE!!!!!
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Welcome back Millennium Force riders...We all want to know how was your RIDE!!!!!
Another mistake is on the original drawing of Magnum on Dan's site.
(http://www.spiritofthepoint.com/images/maglayout.JPG)
If you look at the turn around, it countinuously goes down instead of going up and then down. I suspect that this drawing was the original plan and then when the Arrow engineers found out it would pull too many G's they changed it.
(http://www.spiritofthepoint.com/images/maglayout.JPG)
If you look at the turn around, it countinuously goes down instead of going up and then down. I suspect that this drawing was the original plan and then when the Arrow engineers found out it would pull too many G's they changed it.
Acually (correct me if I'm wrong) The pretzel-turn was reprofiled 3months after the initial opening because of the excessive g's.
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Corey
Signature of the week: "Human Sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!" Pete Venkman
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Corey
Signature of the week: "Human Sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!" Pete Venkman
Forgive me if this is a bit off topic. I don't get around much to the other coaster forums on the web. I've seen two references here to the removal (?) of Steel Phantom at Kennywood. Can someone provide a -brief- summary of what's happened?
TIA.
TIA.
Western Cruiser -- if your look at coasterbuzz you will find all the info you want.
rOLLocoASt -- brakes were put on the third hill (in a really stupid place) early in the first season. The reprofile was done later.
rOLLocoASt -- brakes were put on the third hill (in a really stupid place) early in the first season. The reprofile was done later.
Camel, even if they arent doing this intentionally they are creating a bad image at the other parks (except CP). CP probably now has no interest in using them in the near future. B&M just impresses everybody with there coaster designs. And to think, just 10 short years ago they were starting out when they built Iron Wolf at SFGAm. If that isnt progress in a short period of time I dont know what is.
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