Are We Looking At This Track Wrong?

I dont know about any of you, but something i've noticed is the way this coaster is attatched to the tower. If you look at the pics of how this coaster is connected to the tower http://www.virtualmidway.com/mystery/default_p.asp Maybe you will see what I do. Does it not look like the way the supports are set up that this side of the tower with track on it may possibly be the launch side? I would think that a down side would have more support vertically rather than horizontally the way all of these connecters support the track. However, it looks perfectly supported to convert horizontal speed into vertical. Also, Cedar Point has a track record of having the stations set back away from the midway. Look at raptor, mantis, millie, and various other coasters that are all recent. They all have some track between the midway and the station. I dont know it was just an observation of mine. Any comments?

"I Feel The Need, The Need For Speed" - Top Gun

*** This post was edited by SteveHockey4 10/9/2002 12:15:46 AM ***

I too have noticed that the support structure looks incredibly weak for the forces it'll have to be supporting, but who knows..?

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Brent Haley
Gemini Crew '02

but you got to remember that those supports are a lot thicker than the track. so you don't really need a whole lotta supports for the track. i see all the strength needed right there. i'm also sure they've done all their computer tests to insure proper support weight. you know.

Yes i do agree that there are enough supports, I was never disputing that fact. However they are taking what the force would be in the wrong Direction. It looks like they would run into some stress problems over a few years if the force that would be going downwards if in fact that this was the end and not the beginning of the tophat. Sorry maybe i didnt make my point as clear as i should have.

The force on a structure from a pullout is not different from that of a pullup, just in the opposite order. Once the track is curving up after the launch, there is just as much downward force as when it is bottoming out after the tophat. Essentially the same speed, same curvature = same forces.

-albert

well the supports are the same on both sides. so no matter which end is up or down the same force is still going to be applied either way.

Ok well, now that i think about it alviolin, and after i consult my old physics notes, you are right. the forces would be the same. ok so at least looking at it that way i was incorrect. What does anyone else think about the station still being on the other side, and not the side everyone has been saying its on?

"I Feel The Need, The Need For Speed" - Top Gun

*** This post was edited by SteveHockey4 10/9/2002 2:25:20 AM ***

So you're all structural engineers now? Have you seen MF's pullout? Sure looks the same to me.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP
Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"There's nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, when it's all in your mind. You gotta let go." - Ghetto, Supreme Beings of Leisure

If you notice though, in some of those pics, the supports on both sides of the tower are identical. And the side with the track, (if you look from the midway) the grey supports are angled to the left and the yellow supports are angled up, so they will soak up the pressure when the train comes down. But like I said the support braces are identical on both sides of the tower so until we see some launch track i guess we wont know for sure. Unless of course the grey supports that they will put up on the other side tell us something before launch track is laid.

The grey supports are perfectly lined up with the tower...its just the angle of the pictures....if you look straight at the tower you will see that their perfectly ligned up

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Guess who's back....back again ;)

OK, and how many times have you calculated the forces exerted on truss coaster track by a train moving over 100 mph?

Look at the second to last photo at the bottom right, you'll see the same type of support joint as the opposite side. I understand what you're getting at, but if you look at MF, the support structure is the same going either way. See the supports between the Frontier Trail tunnel and the lagoon tower supports. They're identical regardless of direction, which says to me that the supports will be oriented the same either way and do not indicate one side being more likely to be the launch side than the other.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP
Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"There's nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, when it's all in your mind. You gotta let go." - Ghetto, Supreme Beings of Leisure

Ok, i do see what youre saying and i agree with the fact that both sides are EXACTLY the same. However on these forums people have been been acting like the near side is definitely the launch side. Im just trying to open discussion about what people think about the launch being on the other side and what we might see. Think about it. It is very Cedar Pointish to put the station on the other side of the coaster and show some dramatic elements right up against the midway. Stations are boring and noone cares what happens in the station unless they are in line. But look at Corkscrew, the main element and selling point is the corkscrews over the midway. Raptor has the drop and loop right against the midway. Mantis has the drop and loop against the midway. Millie has that bunny hill and sweet final banked curve up against the midway (not to say that is the best part of the coaster but it is better than a station). Even an old ride such as the Cedar Creek Mine Ride has the best part, the helix, right beside the midway. And lets not forget the lagoon pass of ID where is it? Exactly! I think that if there is going to be anything more than a L:TH:B it will definitely be near the midway. Its just so Cedar Pointish of them to do that. Pesonally i think that this coaster will be more than a one trick pony. Will i still ride it even if it is just a L:TH:B , Hell ya! But Cedar Point hasnt really made anything like that. Even Millenium which is the least complicated after the hill and first curve, has some nice bunny hops and what i find to be a sweet curve with some powerful G's right at the end, not to mention 2 tunnels at 80+Mph. I just dont see CP investing 20 some million dollars to build a one trick pony. Millenium didnt just break the record barrier for height and speed now did it? i dont see them going for just one record here either. Even if its not height and speed they will definitely go for some kind of records! I just cant wait to see this thing develop over the next few months and cant wait for that announcement! Happy riding to everyone as the season "Rolls" (pun intended) to a close!

By the way Jeff, Is That second picture you have linked above showing the test run of Millie with the "clearance boards" (or whever they are supposed to be called) on it. Sweet Picture!!

"I Feel The Need, The Need For Speed"- Top Gun

*** This post was edited by SteveHockey4 10/9/2002 1:08:09 PM ***

First off, long time lurker, occasional poster here. Actually Jeff, in my first year of engineering, one of the group projects in one of my classes was to design a simple roller coaster (simple in the fact that it was one big hill and one loop). However, the speed of our ride was 100 mph and the height of the ride was 350 ft. You'd be surprised what they teach you in some schools. It's very similar to what the new ride will be (minus the loop of course).

I'm a first time poster... been reading for a couple weeks and just figured I'd throw my two cents in. I have to agree that I beleive the coaster will not be launched next to the midway. One for noise, and also for reasons posted above. Also, hate to bash on my first post but I can't believe a first year engineering course really took into consideration wind drag, friction, cart design, wheel diameter and the millions of variables needed to design a coaster. Lets leave the physics to the experts.

With your theory in mind, SteveHockey, I would think standing in the midway and watching the train launch out of the station and up that tower would be exciting enough to the GP. Much more exciting than some track elements. Afterall the launch up that huge tower is going to be the "biggest" trick. I'd want to have as great a view of that as possible.

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I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead

The only way to tell which side is which is to wait a little. If you look at the pics of Xcelerator, the last support for the track before the launch mechanism is shaped like an "n" and the cable goes through the middle of it. The side that has one wider footer with two sets of anchor bolts will be the side of the launch. As for which side that is, I haven't seen any pics of proof, nor have I see it with my own two eyes.

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Hoping to work at The Point in '03 so I too can get drunk and pee on VertiGo

Luke Whittington said:
I have to agree that I beleive the coaster will not be launched next to the midway. One for noise, and also for reasons posted above.

Then how do you explain Xcelerator at Knott's and Hypersonic at Kings Dominion? Heck, Hypersonic is loud on launch with the queue right next to the track, and Xcelerator is allegedly much quieter.

That second MF photo link above was the pull-through.

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Jeff
Webmaster/GTTP
Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"There's nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, when it's all in your mind. You gotta let go." - Ghetto, Supreme Beings of Leisure

I don't think noise will be too much of a factor. Ever try to have a conversation in the Mantis queue?

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- John
I was young once...

needless and giant quotation removed. -j

Yeah the launch for Xcelerator is very quiet. Its not something you can hear across the park like S:TE. WT isnt very loud either (for comparison), or I should say its quieter than S:UE even. I havnt had the pleasure of hearing Hypersonic tho. So im guessing that noise wont be much of a factor.
*** This post was edited by Jeff 10/9/2002 3:03:24 PM ***

My experiece however limited with launch coasters was that they were quite loud. But then so are brake runs and any section of track with a train traveling on it in the lower 100's (hopefully). So I guess my comment on noise was not well founded. Still I think the less possible noise you can place along the midway the better... and I still feel that this would be the non-launched side.