Airtime

It seems that spot is the only one here who understands the physics well enough.

Majin Heero, ANYTHING on a vertical plane without mechanical devices or physical constrictions whether going up or down experiences zero G! WT only experieces zero g at the very top because that is the only point in which the entire train is vertical. That means if you are in the front, and it is negotiating a foward pass through the station and racing up the front spike, even though you are going straight up, you will not feel zero g until the rear coach goes vertical, by that time you are near the top and an instant later you are stalling. That would explain why you arent feeling zero g through out the entire spike. 16 wont have this problem because the radius of the pull up is so much larger in perportion to the train. So basically once the front car is vertical its a matter of milliseconds before the entire train goes vertical. I took all of this into account when i did the math.

Coaster King: There arent any hydraulics in the top hat as it has nothing to do with the speed at the crest the ride. Yes it is hard to keep airtime consistant but that exactly why engineers design these rides so as to make it possible, its not hard to do these days. Computers.

Bob Dole: Once you get off the launch at the and of the launch strip you will no longer be pressed into the back of your seat because you are riding on pure kenetic energy. Speed has nothing to do with it. Take this for example, right now the earth is spinning and you right now are traveling aproximatly 66,000 mph. I am not flattened up against the western wall of my room. The feeling of being pressed against your seat is given by the acceleration from 0 to 120. As for the "Only way to get true airtime", you know that everyone in this post is laughing at you.

Alright, that makes sense now that I think about it. :)

------------------
L-TH-TW-B... "Meh"

---

Fluidcoasters said:

Bob Dole: Once you get off the launch at the and of the launch strip you will no longer be pressed into the back of your seat because you are riding on pure kenetic energy. Speed has nothing to do with it. Take this for example, right now the earth is spinning and you right now are traveling aproximatly 66,000 mph. I am not flattened up against the western wall of my room. The feeling of being pressed against your seat is given by the acceleration from 0 to 120. As for the "Only way to get true airtime", you know that everyone in this post is laughing at you.

---

Dude now your talking 100's of thousands of times lager than a 400-foot tall coaster. I know your not being pressed against the back wall of your house and that's basically because the earth is so large you can't feel the movement. Here we're talking about going from 0 to over 100 mph in under a couple of hundreds of your going to be feeling positive g's in excess of 2 g's for longer then just the launch. It's not like as soon as you leave the launch the g forces go back to normal. It's sort of the same principles as a rocket launch, a couple of things are different but it's still the same sort of idea. And I was some what wrong on the only way to get true air time but still your not going to get zero g's going up the tower because of this big green thing below our feet called the EARTH no matter what it's still pulling you down that’s why if you jump up into the air you don’t keep floating. The whole experience of zero g's, in this case, is because of inertia wanting to carry you in the same direction and the train heading over in another direction that's why if there where not lap bars, seat belts, ect to keep you in your seat or you would be thrown out of the train over any hill you feel a lot of zero g's on. And don’t say I’m wrong because about that I’m right. And away way who made you physics god? And according to this quote, “ANYTHING on a vertical plane without mechanical devices or physical constrictions whether going up or down experiences zero G!” if I lie down on my living room floor then I should experience zero g’s. And another thing of the subject I must be missing something because I don’t see transfers anywhere on this ride. That’s all for this post.

------------------
Blue train always wins. . . . .Unless the red train cheats!
*** This post was edited by Bob Dole 1/6/2003 4:52:36 PM ***

Okay you ARE wrong! If you are inside an airplane have you noticed that in flight you can take off your seat belts, you can walk to the bathroom you can stand still as you pea a steady stream into the toilet, all while going 400- 500 mph speed does not matter. Once you leave the launch you will not be pressed to the back of the seat because you are not accelerating. You will get positive gs but they will push you down only because you are curving upwards. Once you go vertical all Gs drop to zero yes "ANYTHING on a vertical plane without mechanical devises (Brakes and Launches) or physical constrictions (which WOULD include your living room floor!) whether going up or down experiences zero G!" I AM right. I am not stupid i know that when you are going up the tower that gravity is still pulling you down but you are forgetting that the TRAIN is also being pulled down causing you and the train to slow down at the same rate providing zero G. On a vertical path going up, gravity is slowing you and the train at the same rate so you experience ZERO G. When going straight down you are accellerating with gravity experiencing ZERO G. Try jumping, as soon as your feet leave the ground you are at zero g until your feet touch the ground again. I know i not a physics god but i am an engineering major. and there is no second guessing physics.
*** This post was edited by Fluidcoasters 1/6/2003 5:46:59 PM ***

Bob Dole - I don't even know where to begin to critique your post. It should suffice to say that you are pretty much wrong about everything you've said. A few comments:

1) Size has nothing to do with whether you can feel yourself moving or not. The bottom line is that once the launch mechanism is no longer attached to the train, it will no longer be ACCELerating. Hence, you will no longer be pressed to the back of your seat.

2) If you lie down on your living room floor, you have zero velocity in the vertical direction. Fluidcoasters said that the object had to be MOVING but without any other outside influence (except, of course, gravity).

And please change your screen name - it's really bad to see such random thoughts attributed to someone named Bob Dole. Oh, wait a minute. Maybe it all makes sense. You REALLY ARE Bob Dole!

------------------
First CP Visit: 1970

Dude size does matter in the case I was talking about case. If you take a marble at 66,000 mph it's going to seem to be spinning at a lot faster speed then an object the size of the earth. It’s the same thing with tire sizes if you take two identical Corvettes for instance and run them under identical conditions except for tire sizes the larger tire can go faster. That’s why they don’t run 10-inch tires on top fuel dragsters. I don’t know but maybe this is just me but after a launch of wicked twister I feel like I’m being pushed into the back of my seat but maybe it’s just me and my up screwed mind.
------------------
Blue train always wins. . . . .Unless the red train cheats!
*** This post was edited by Bob Dole 1/7/2003 11:59:58 AM ***
*** This post was edited by Bob Dole 1/7/2003 1:46:12 PM ***

Bob Dole said:
"...in the case I was talking about case."

"...it’s just me and my up screwed mind."

That about says it all.

------------------
First CP Visit: 1970

First of all with your "size does matter thing" i understand that a matching speed and smaller radius equals more revolutions per minute. But you are trailing off here, that has nothing to do with feeling speed. what i am saying is: You don't feel speed! If you were small enough to stand on that marble, and it had gravity, you still would not feel forces. If the earth were spinning perportionally the same speed as that marble (1,000,000,000 X faster) you still wouldn't feel any speed. What you feel on coasters is accelleration. Whenever you are speeding up or slowing down you are feeling diferent types of accelleration. Any time you are changing direction, turning, pulling up, dropping, or going over a hill, you are accellerating in different directions. Those accelerations are opposed by a normal force known as inertial force which can come in linear accelleration and centripetal accelleration, when divided into the average accelleration due to gravity (9.801m/s squared), you get G forces. When those G forces oppose each other equaly, they cancel out make zero G. That is what you FEEL on coasters, not speed.

As for WT, I know i explained this earlier in this post to Majin Heero. The reason why you are pressed to the back of your seat is the accelleration from 0 to 50 and the other launches provide acceleration too. after the launch is over you feel positives but you still feel pressed to your seat because you are headed skyward and the entire train must go completely vertical before you experience zero Gs and on wicked twister, it takes few seconds to get completely there. Basically you are tending to fall faster then the train is because the train's back car is still pulling up. once it is vertical you will feel the float. but thats why it seems to wear off on WT. On 16 the train is moving so fast and the pull up is soo big compared to the train that once the front car in skyward the rear car in almost there so this will not be experienced on 16.
*** This post was edited by Fluidcoasters 1/7/2003 1:39:56 PM ***

If you havnt been on Xcelerator, its hard to tell someone exactly how it feels. when you crest that tophat, its going to feel like your on top of the world.....then you get ripped down (if you sit in the back ;) ) Anyone who has been on Xcel knows what im talking about & from what I've read there isnt many. If you guys think about it too much your going to run the fun for yourself. Just know that you have never experienced anything like it before, and when you get launched for the first time you will be hooked!

Ok I admit a couple of my previous statements if fact where wrong (see I’m not afraid to admit I’m wrong every once and a while) but according to this link and this link (which comes directly from NASA) I prove that you can’t feel zero g’s going up the hill only over the hill and going down.

------------------
Blue train always wins. . . . .Unless the red train cheats!
*** This post was edited by Bob Dole 1/7/2003 2:01:12 PM ***

How old are you? You are old enough to understand that if you throw a ball striaght up it slows down as it is climbing from the point that it leaves your hand eventually stalling and falling back to the ground. How gravity it exist even when something is going against it. It doesn't just travel at a constant speed and then just decide to fall back. It deccellerates at -9.801 meters per second squared. Inertial force wants you to keep rising but gravity pulls you back down just like at the tops of parabolic hills inertial force wants to keep you rising but gravity pulls you back down. Just the same vertical motion as a parabolic hill only there is no horizontal motion. The reason i dont admit I am wrong every once in a while is because i AM not wrong when it comes to newtonian mechanics because it is FIRST GRADE understanding in my feild. I agree with nasa's article based on the fact that coasters run mostly on gravity and arent powered by turbo fan jet engines or rockets. You proved nothing except your ignorance!
*** This post was edited by Fluidcoasters 1/7/2003 3:40:03 PM ***

Well, there you have it.

Yep.

Why oh WHY can't we just wait 'til May, enjoy the ride, and quit this petty bickering and finger-pointing and "I'm smarter than you" stuff? C'mon, it's a thrill ride in an AMUSEMENT park...who cares if you feel 0.2Gs going up or whatever, it's going to be a great ride!

Sorry about that folks...we now return you to your regularly-scheduled griping already in progress...

Well jimmybob, It is only healthy to debate. It keeps your mind in gear and its fun.... and fun to read. You read it. Why do you think people watch Jerry Springer? Let Bob Dole and I have fun for goodness sakes.

My bad. Sometimes it's hard to sort out the fun from the not-so-fun around here, 'specially lately :).

jim

I hear ya

I never thought we'd have a discussion about air time, in context that it exists.

------------------
Love,
The Mole

Here is a quote or two from you fluidcoasters: “Once you go vertical all Gs drop to zero” “ANYTHING on a vertical plane without mechanical devices or physical constrictions whether going up or down experiences zero G!” On my last post what I was trying to prove wrong was these to quotes and maybe a couple of others but I don’t feel like looking for anymore. But anyway I proved the first and the second quote wrong by showing the evidence that your don’t feel zero g’s until you start on the downward path (or something similar to that I think it was in different wording). Oh and another thing did you even read my post because you didn’t even address the issue I was talking about earlier when I was trying to say you won’t experience zero g’s going up the hill after the launch this entire time you have been twisting my words around from what I said to what would better suit your well being in this matter.

------------------
Blue train always wins. . . . .Unless the red train cheats!

No i heard ya. Those qoutes couldnt be more correct than they are. Even when going up 90 degrees Bob Dole, even when going up, you experience zero Gs. Because you begin your "downward path" when you start accellerating toward the ground or in other words deccellerating during your vertical climb. That does happen when you are moving the opposite direction of gravity. Where you are getting confused is when the train is climbing it is slowing down even though it makes it over the top hat, it is still deccellerating towards gravity even while it is negotiating its vertical climb. As you are being pulled back to earth during that climb, the train ALSO is being pulled back to earth at the same rate (If you don't beleive me drop two similarly sized objects with completely opposite weights at the same level and i bet you that they will hit the ground at the same time.) Scince you and the train are deccellerating at the same rate due to gravity's pull, gravity cant pull you into your seat as it is slowing down just as you are. Just the same as when you are falling, gravity can't pull you foward because the train is accellerating foward with you at the same rate. Gravity pulls everything down at the same rate all the time even if it its going up only under the influence of gravity, or down under the same basis. So as long as you are in no static physical constraint (which includes a floor especialy living room floors) you will experience zero gravity because you are going with the flow of gravity. So if you were launched from a catapult in any direction you would feel zero gravity. Say 45 degrees, you would arc back down in a parabolic arc much like most coaster's cammel back hills. If you launched more horizontally you would make a much lower but longer parabolic arc. If you were shot more vertical you would make a more sharp but higher parabolic arc. The higher you would angle the cannon, the sharper and higher the parabolic arc gets until eventually you would go straight up and straight back down. In the top hat of 16 it features all of the preceeding elemtents morphed into one. I am not twisting any words around you just dont quite understand the concept of free fall.

(Round of Applause)

Hell of a job Fluidcoasters. It's good to see the results of an education shine on this board. You have any intentions of getting involved with coasters after you're done with school? Seems like it fits ya well. I think that'd be an amazing job, desiging coasters.

Bob Dole, I think you should just admit that Fluidcoasters' statements are right. Like he said, don't be ignorant or stubborn. Although it is fun to read, so either way.

Peace I'm Out