4-D should be next

X is probably a great ride if you can get on it. That second part is my point. Why even look at arrow or vekoma (hell lets get them in it since there similar in design and how long their rides last) We all know Arrow and Vekoma ride get rough over time. That is problem one with them, problem two is the downtime still with X. Yes dragster had big downtime but the problems appear to be close to worked out after around one year. X still has problems.

So if you look at it, Arrow and Intamin come out with new prototype rides, a 4-D and a rocket. Arrow and Intamin are still having problems. Intamin is doing alot better then arrow with those problems.

The other thing is look at the variety of Intamin and B&M....where is Arrow's variety, yeah they have a few new designs. Batwing which I think has had no sales. 4-D which has one, and is not going well. So the last thing arrow has are mouse type rides, and there Hypers. (Maybe other types I can't remember). Or I guess I should say S&S-Arrow.

Hell, I don't know, hands down to me if you want a coaster don't even bother with Arrow or Vekoma, go with Intamin or B&M.

So when I look at that I can't imagine going with arrow, Now if B&M tackles the 4-D then there is some possibility.

Ok, who's going to flame me for that, remember it's my opinion.

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"This second hill is my favorite part of the ride. It is so Cool!"
TTD Status: "Contaminates in the system" S.K. Per my conversation
EA Sports "It's in the Game"

Why would anyone flame you? Your thought process is perfectly logical.

A while back wasn't there some kind of patent for B&M that showed seats that could rotate independently of the track, but were controlled by onboard, programmed computers? I sure would like to see if anything has come out of this design.

I would also like to see the new generation 4-D's that S&S was boasting about. The trains are apparently much shorter, have the seats on top of the rails, and have the potential to be launched like a Thrust Air.

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...and the most anticipated event of summer 2003 is...

The Matrix: Reloaded!

What are the problems that X has? Or is it a design problem?

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Beer and golf Thursday thru Monday, Cedar Point & beer, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Ah, I don't know...who was that newbie that didn't like what I had to say a few months ago? BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!!! :)

I remember seeing those sketches for B&M with rotating seats, I forgot about that.

And I never heard of S&Ss new design for the 4-D, do you have a link to that information?

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"This second hill is my favorite part of the ride. It is so Cool!"
TTD Status: "Contaminates in the system" S.K. Per my conversation
EA Sports "It's in the Game"

Wooden Twister on the beach is the only way to go, which would mean saying bye-bye to Warehouse Disaster. As for a floorless, it seems people aren't to big on this design. I have only been on BKF and I loved it. Maybe if I had the chance to ride others I might not think CP should get one.

I don't think Arrow and Vekoma coasters are inherently rough over time (the Arrow argument is particularly silly since the 4D has no common engineering with the mine trains and loopers of the 70's and 80's). Loch Ness Monster is still very smooth (Arrow). Disney's Rock-n-Rollercoaster is also smoother than any of the Premiers I've been on with lap bars (Vekoma).

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Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - My Blog
Blogs, photo albums - CampusFish
What time does the water show start?

Maybe it is a bad argument, but the problem I have with arrow is there stupid (in my opinion) design of the wheel system. (up stops, side wheels and track wheel or something like that). They have the same wheel system on X as there old hypers. (not a spring system I mean). What has prevented them from changing that to a spring system like B&M and Intamin?

I don't care how you slice it a ride on a B&M or Intamin is smoother then any arrow coaster. And I believe it has to do with the wheel design. There are two other possibilities, riders height, and transition of track.

Now lets assume that the problem (the roughness of the ride) is due to transitions of track. If arrow has fixed the manufacture process of that and can still use the existing wheel structure with no springs, then nevermind, I am wrong on thinking it is the wheels.

Dave stated that the roughness could be due to riders height on OTHR's in Arrows. (or I thought he did). So in a way I am wrong with thinking it is the wheel design. But that's like saying well arrow rides are smooth if the riders head is above the restraints so he doesn't hit them. But the ride is rough if his head fits nicely in the restraints. Which still says to me poor design on the wheels, or transitions or maybe something else.

Perhaps I am so far out in left field it isn't funny.

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"This second hill is my favorite part of the ride. It is so Cool!"
TTD Status: "Contaminates in the system" S.K. Per my conversation
EA Sports "It's in the Game"

Okay, I apologize in advance for this because I know it is way off topic but I have to clear this up.

Ffej, you are confusing advertising with publicity. That example you mentioned is an example of free publicity. I'll admit there is a fine line between them but there is a difference. I am a marketing major graduating in June and trust me, I know the difference.

Edit: typo

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CP2K3: Visits: 33 Drag races won: 14
*** This post was edited by Scott Cameron 9/15/2003 9:44:05 PM ***

Hooper,
YOU ARE MY HERO!!! Its not that I hate Arrow or that I don't think the design of their coasters are brilliant, its just that every time I get off of Magnum or Corkscrew i feel like i have just gone through an earthquake. Manum leaves me with a throbbing headache for days! This is one reason why in 2000 i was so happy with MF because it is so very smooth, and this is noted by people around the coaster community such as Robert Coker in his book Roller Coasters: (reviewing MF) "So smooth, so graceful, not a jolt, not a single shimmy"...Even though Arrow is my person #3 choice, it's only because Intamin and B&M top my list each and every year

If anyone is not interested in this part, scroll down, as I offer my thoughts on a 4-D coaster below.

Scott: The only reason why I responded to your comment that "advertising in any form is paid for" was because it directly contrasted with what I've been taught. I'm an engineering major, but that doesn't mean I take only engineering classes. A year ago I took an English class, and for virtually 2 months, we analyzed what advertising was, the different forms, the effects, and so on. What I learned is that advertising is a very broad category. Let's look at Webster's definition: "Advertisement: the act of making publicly and generally known." If advertisement had to be paid for, surely a recognized dictionary would mention it. Free publicity, as you mention, is a sub-category within the general advertisement. In the English class, we specifically discussed that clothing branding was advertisement, and it makes sense. So let's just conclude that the Cedar Point simulators in California were making CP publicly known, thus it was advertisement.

As for a 4-D coaster, I think it's fair to say that CP will eventually get one or something similar. Will it be CP's next roller coaster constructed? Probably not, but then again, it is a possibility. Maybe B&M or a new company has tested and perfected a 4-D coaster for five years now, and they're ready to unleash the design.

I really want to ride X; it sounds like an awesome, refreshing experience (though it's too far away for me). The 4-D coasters are the type rides that draw the masses, and I bet CP is thinking along the same lines. If this is an amazing type ride, I can't wait until CP gets one.

I would argue that the wheel design of older Arrow rides is not the problem. I used to think so, but that was until I got a chance to ride a few that are well maintained. So if you take that out of the equation, that pretty much leaves the poor track transitions.

And like I said... X is about as close as a clean-sheet design as you're going to get for Arrow, and using rides built ten years prior as an example of what Arrow can do today isn't a fair comparison.

But regardless, X's downtime makes it just kind of ride I don't see them taking a chance on.

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Jeff - Webmaster - GTTP - My Blog
Blogs, photo albums - CampusFish
What time does the water show start?

The Arrow coaster that should be used in the argument that it's transitions and not wheel assemblies is the Tennessee Tornado. That ride, when I rode back in '99, was just as smooth as any Intamin or B&M, and it runs with standard Corkscrew trains.. Why? There are no typical Arrow transitions.

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Scott W. Short
mailto:scott@midwestcoastercentral.com
http://www.midwestcoastercentral.com

Yeah I was thinking of that ride also, and heard it is smooth. So that pretty much confirms it is the transitions and not wheel assemblies.

Kyle, I'm not saying arrow rides suck, (maybe I worded it that way), but after Raptor, usually I head to Magnum. Part of it is the walk on it usually is, but the other part is the airtime that ride delivers. As long as your not in row three of any car, sitting over the axle is usually a bit too rough for me. And for some reason I like the long climb to the top.

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"This second hill is my favorite part of the ride. It is so Cool!"
TTD Status: "Contaminates in the system" S.K. Per my conversation
EA Sports "It's in the Game"

Ok, I have a rant about some coaster riders today. When I was growing up there was no such thing as a smooth coaster ride, compared to Intamin and B&M today. Coasters were mostly rough and tumble, punch you in the kidneys and hit you over the head type of rides.

While I love MF, and the smoothness works on that ride because it's a cruiser, the best coasters make you feel some shaking, vibration, rough transitions and slamming. What someone said: "So smooth, so graceful, not a jolt, not a single shimmy"... couldn't even describe my car. I want my coaster rides to be more than a cruise on the Interstate.

Magnum is a great ride because it is a little rough and tumble, with perfectly designed bunny hills that slam you into the restraint bar. I've been on Steel Force, and while it's a good ride, it's no Magnum. Why? It's too smooth with the "modern" transitions it has.

I even like the elements on Corkscrew better than Raptor, even though Raptor is a superior ride. The bunny hill on Corkscrew before the loop is better than what is found on any B&M looper. And the inversions are just rough enough to make you feel like you are riding a coaster. Raptor is a great, fun simulation of flight. Corkscrew is a nice, small looper that makes you feel like you are on a rollercoaster ride.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I enjoy riding "rough" rides! Of course, I also enjoyed getting tossed off mechanical bulls in bars in the early 80's. :)

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I'd rather be in my boat with a drink on the rocks,
than in the drink with a boat on the rocks.

I also am aware that I may have worded it to make it look like I hate all Arrow coasters...not true, but one can't say that Magnum and many other of the Arrow designed coasters are smooth, and as fun, as the new breeds of coasters that B&M and Imtamin are churning out. But if you are like Pete who loves rough rides then I guess Arrow is right up your ally.

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CP2K3:8
visits in june while TTd was closed:5
TTD:5
MF:11
WT:9
I LOVE INTAMIN!!!

It will be interesting to see what the future coasters of CP will consist of. I

It's hard to imagine what could be next besides just bigger. Hasn't every aspect of coasters been designed?!?

I would like to also see another kiddy coaster, maybe a baby invert. Raptor decade anniversary idea?;) I would love a new woody, but I'm not a big fan of how CP "runs" them. (can i PLEASE oil MS's track?!? PLEASE) ..that high pitch screeching has yet to be desired.

Whatever the future holds for my thrill ride fix, I can hardly wait for it's experience! ....came across this by boredom's chance... I want an Intamin Woody!

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The B E S T SEVENTEEN s-e-c-o-n-d-s of SHEER >>InSaNitY<< I've E V E R experienced!

*** This post was edited by Luke Sherri 9/17/2003 3:18:54 AM ***
*** This post was edited by Luke Sherri 9/17/2003 3:19:44 AM ***

Sort of a dumb idea I had this past weekend, and I'm not sure if it would really do anything, but what about moving Blue Streak over to where Disaster Transport is now. Take out the Transport, make Blue Streak your "beach coaster" and thereby drive up the ridership on a coaster that most people don't know is there or forget is there. Not that this would really give them room to make a great new ride, maybe just expand that road back there to 3 lanes so that getting in and out of the back parts of the peninsula is a little easier at high traffic times.

As far as a 4-D goes, I think its a terrible idea for the Point. While X was a blast, it was also so rough I could barely walk afterwards from my headache which lasted all day. Between the downtime, the terrible capacity, and the incredible roughness, I doubt the Point would ever invest in one of these in their current design phase. What I do believe is that we will see something "filler" like a smaller woodie that everyone's been asking for, or maybe just a giant flat ride expansion (the giant rides, not a bunch of them) and then the year of Mr. Kinzel's retirement is when we'll see the B&M 4D 300 footer, or the S&S thrust air 4D or the 300 foot B&M flyer, or maybe just the 515 foot mega-giga or something massive like that.

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Resident Launch Whore
--Brett

Hooper:

The stuff about the new S&S designs are in Rob Cokers review/interview on thrillride

After his review there's an interview with the engineer who worked on X. Near the end he mentions the thrust X, etc. I get really confused when he starts talking about half/half, 1 and a half/half, etc. I really have trouble understanding what he's talking about.

http://www.thrillride.com/X/x.html

Personally I think they should work on getting a normal version working properly before they go air launched.

To me, a 4-D is a bad idea. There's been nothing but problems with "X". I'd much rather see a B&M Flyer, or a new twist...the first Seizmic Floorless, which is more of a true floorless than what B&M puts out. Heck, I'll take a giant Wild Mouse, I'm just tired of launched coasters and their problems. They give me a head rush anyway.

On a trip to the mall with my friends today, my friend Natalie decided to try the Cedar Point ride simulator. It was extremely dissapointing. Although it said you could choose from 6 rides, only two of them were available "at this time" aparently only 2 programs are in the machine at once.. It was a crock. She rode gemini, and the movement of the simulator was not cordinated in the least with the actual ride. It was just random movements. Of course, I guess we couldn't expect much considering it was in the section with the kiddy rides that cost a quarter.

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ONE freeway stamp a day... ONE