2000 Internet Wooden Coaster Poll results
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http://www.hitchhikers.net/users/wcoaster/wcprs00.txt
Well let me be the first one to relay the news of this year's Wooden Tracked Roller Coaster Poll results as they relate to CP:
Blue Streak - #62
Mean Streak - #153 (out of 163, ouch)
CP's coasters continue their downslide in the annual wooden coaster poll. Here are the comparative results from years past:
Mean Streak
'94 - #42
'95 - #66
'96 - #73
'97 - #103
'98 - #115
'99 - #135
'00 - #153
Blue Streak
'94 - #11
'95 - #11
'96 - #29
'97 - #42
'98 - #51
'99 - #51
'00 - #62
These results and the steady decline of the coasters' popularity can be interpreted in many ways, I think this makes a good discussion, so how do you all interpret this?
Another interesting thing to note: with 163 (Blue Streak) and 162 (Mean Streak) riders, Cedar Point's two wooden coasters are number 1 and 2 in number of riders.
(boredom...wow)
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Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
*** This post was edited by Backstreet Girl on 12/1/2000. ***
Well let me be the first one to relay the news of this year's Wooden Tracked Roller Coaster Poll results as they relate to CP:
Blue Streak - #62
Mean Streak - #153 (out of 163, ouch)
CP's coasters continue their downslide in the annual wooden coaster poll. Here are the comparative results from years past:
Mean Streak
'94 - #42
'95 - #66
'96 - #73
'97 - #103
'98 - #115
'99 - #135
'00 - #153
Blue Streak
'94 - #11
'95 - #11
'96 - #29
'97 - #42
'98 - #51
'99 - #51
'00 - #62
These results and the steady decline of the coasters' popularity can be interpreted in many ways, I think this makes a good discussion, so how do you all interpret this?
Another interesting thing to note: with 163 (Blue Streak) and 162 (Mean Streak) riders, Cedar Point's two wooden coasters are number 1 and 2 in number of riders.
(boredom...wow)
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Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
*** This post was edited by Backstreet Girl on 12/1/2000. ***
I would say that polls like these should send up a "red flag" to the management of Cedar Point. People are clearly becoming more and more disappointed in Cedar Point's two wooden roller coasters. Evidence of this is seen in polls such as this one and the countless posts which have been made to this website and others regarding Mean Streak and Blue Streak.
The main problem that I feel Blue Streak has stems from its redesign a few years ago. The new seats, seat belts, and lap bars are unnecessary, uncomfortable, and un-called for. They took much of the excitement and nostalgia away from the ride and I have never liked the Blue Streak as much as I did before the makeover. Cedar Point's over-zealous safety precautions have ruined this classic wooden roller coaster. How many accidents were there on Blue Streak in the 30 some odd years before the makeover? None that I can remember, which makes the new precautions completely unnecessary.
The Mean Streak was one of my favorite rides in the park when it first opened, now there are some trips I make to Cedar Point without ever riding Mean Streak. It has gone way downhill in the years since it opened. The brakes going down the first hill effectively "kill" the entire purpose of the ride. It is supposed to be a fast-paced, rough ride which it doesn't even come close to being with the trim brakes in place. If it's a structural problem, then Cedar Point needs to bite the bullet and spend the necessary money to get it fixed, even if it means spending millions of dollars to fix it. If they aren't willing to do that, then they need to tear it down to make room for a new, properly constructed ride which will make better use of that large amount of space.
I'm sorry for posting such a large post but I have become extremely disappointed in Cedar Point's handling of wooden roller coasters in recent years and I hope that they will realize what is going on and fix this problem which just seems to get worse year after year. Something needs to be done now before Cedar Point's wooden roller coaster reputation completely goes down the drain. I realize that wooden coasters are not the premiere aspect of Cedar Point like they might be at a park such as King's Island, but they are still a very important part of the park which cannot be overlooked.
The main problem that I feel Blue Streak has stems from its redesign a few years ago. The new seats, seat belts, and lap bars are unnecessary, uncomfortable, and un-called for. They took much of the excitement and nostalgia away from the ride and I have never liked the Blue Streak as much as I did before the makeover. Cedar Point's over-zealous safety precautions have ruined this classic wooden roller coaster. How many accidents were there on Blue Streak in the 30 some odd years before the makeover? None that I can remember, which makes the new precautions completely unnecessary.
The Mean Streak was one of my favorite rides in the park when it first opened, now there are some trips I make to Cedar Point without ever riding Mean Streak. It has gone way downhill in the years since it opened. The brakes going down the first hill effectively "kill" the entire purpose of the ride. It is supposed to be a fast-paced, rough ride which it doesn't even come close to being with the trim brakes in place. If it's a structural problem, then Cedar Point needs to bite the bullet and spend the necessary money to get it fixed, even if it means spending millions of dollars to fix it. If they aren't willing to do that, then they need to tear it down to make room for a new, properly constructed ride which will make better use of that large amount of space.
I'm sorry for posting such a large post but I have become extremely disappointed in Cedar Point's handling of wooden roller coasters in recent years and I hope that they will realize what is going on and fix this problem which just seems to get worse year after year. Something needs to be done now before Cedar Point's wooden roller coaster reputation completely goes down the drain. I realize that wooden coasters are not the premiere aspect of Cedar Point like they might be at a park such as King's Island, but they are still a very important part of the park which cannot be overlooked.
The drop in the polls can be partially attributed to the 30 or so rides CCI has built in the last five or six years. I think that the building explosion has really made people think hard about what a good coaster is.
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
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Jeff
Webmaster/Guide to The Point
Millennium Force laps: 50
The top eight coasters on the poll were either built in '95 or later, so of course CP's coasters have dropped down in rank over the years.
I don't know about Tonerre de Zeus or Megaphobia, but of those top eight, at least six are CCI's. That, to me, is simply amazing. Anyone who doesn't think CP would be making a good move by investing in one of these is silly.
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How dare you vanquish the Steel Phantom without his consent? Fear the Phantom's Revenge.
I don't know about Tonerre de Zeus or Megaphobia, but of those top eight, at least six are CCI's. That, to me, is simply amazing. Anyone who doesn't think CP would be making a good move by investing in one of these is silly.
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How dare you vanquish the Steel Phantom without his consent? Fear the Phantom's Revenge.
Nah, I don't accept the "new coasters" excuse as one for coasters dropping like a rock. I mean, 111 places (Mean Streak) or 51 places (Blue Streak) are big drops for these two coasters.
Let's take the Riverside Cyclone, for example. It's maintained a steady position between 25-35, fluctuating every year between upwards and downwards movement rather than a straight drop down like the Streaks.
Great Escape Comet, Georgia Cyclone, Phoenix, Idora Wildcat, Screechin' Eagle have all remained fairly stable in their rankings. Most other coasters haven't dropped more than 10-15 places. No, I think there are deeper issues here. And remember, Mean Streak has only operated for 10 seasons, it isn't like it's old and neglected and that's why it's fallen. No, there's something else at the root of this decline, and I'm beginning to form some good ideas, but I want to hear the input of others. (what a follower!)
By the way, I agree about CCI's.
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Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
*** This post was edited by Backstreet Girl on 12/1/2000. ***
Let's take the Riverside Cyclone, for example. It's maintained a steady position between 25-35, fluctuating every year between upwards and downwards movement rather than a straight drop down like the Streaks.
Great Escape Comet, Georgia Cyclone, Phoenix, Idora Wildcat, Screechin' Eagle have all remained fairly stable in their rankings. Most other coasters haven't dropped more than 10-15 places. No, I think there are deeper issues here. And remember, Mean Streak has only operated for 10 seasons, it isn't like it's old and neglected and that's why it's fallen. No, there's something else at the root of this decline, and I'm beginning to form some good ideas, but I want to hear the input of others. (what a follower!)
By the way, I agree about CCI's.
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Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
*** This post was edited by Backstreet Girl on 12/1/2000. ***
Also did anyone notice, SOB, at KingsIsland placed in the 130's. Hmmmm, makes me wonder what people actually thought of it?
In it's hay day, the Blue Streak I'm sure was second to none, but let's face it, now days BS is just flat out over-matched. There's certainly no shame for it and it has delivered, but it's getting a little tired and having trouble keeping up with the stallions that are around now.
The Mean Streak..........I will never EVER say that it's to rough just for the mere fact that that would make me a puddin' pie. This might be a cop out for some, but in the end we know that the main root of the decline is of course those dang blasted trims that greet us every time we turn around. *** This post was edited by Superstew on 12/2/2000. ***
The Mean Streak..........I will never EVER say that it's to rough just for the mere fact that that would make me a puddin' pie. This might be a cop out for some, but in the end we know that the main root of the decline is of course those dang blasted trims that greet us every time we turn around. *** This post was edited by Superstew on 12/2/2000. ***
This poll is probably the most accurate coaster poll out there because of the algorithms he uses to calculate the rankings. Soooo...I'd say SoB's placement is a pretty accurate indication. :)
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Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
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Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
All I have to say is this...I don't mind when roller coasters are rough, as long as they are thrilling. the Mean Streak is just a bad design, and doesn't provide any thrills. Two great coaster examples of roughness and thrills are Thunder Run at SFKK, and Raging Wolf Bobs at SFO.
New coasters don't just bump coasters down places because they're better, but also because they change what we expect from a good ride. I'll use an example I probably know the most about: Kennywood's Thunderbolt. In 1995, it ranked #7. Many, althought not recently, have called it the greatest coaster on earth, and it was ranked as such by NAPHA last year I believe. However, this year on the poll, it ranks at #40.
Why the drop? Well, besides the increase in new coasters, a lot of people have come to look for more in one ride. Thunderbolt is mostly laterals and lacks solid airtime. So, it has seemed to move down the list since many CCI creations have put the same amount of laterals on one coaster, but also pack it with airtime.
Thusly, in comparison, Thunderbolt seems like less of a ride (though not to the locals ;)). The same thing has happened with a number of other classic rides that were once considered to be among the greatest.
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How dare you vanquish the Steel Phantom without his consent? Fear the Phantom's Revenge.
Why the drop? Well, besides the increase in new coasters, a lot of people have come to look for more in one ride. Thunderbolt is mostly laterals and lacks solid airtime. So, it has seemed to move down the list since many CCI creations have put the same amount of laterals on one coaster, but also pack it with airtime.
Thusly, in comparison, Thunderbolt seems like less of a ride (though not to the locals ;)). The same thing has happened with a number of other classic rides that were once considered to be among the greatest.
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How dare you vanquish the Steel Phantom without his consent? Fear the Phantom's Revenge.
CCI has 8 of the top 10, and have placed around 15 coasters above Blue Streak.
The real reason for the decline is that with an increased voting base, more coasters are brought into the fold.
I'll bet that Blue Streak's drop has been semi-proportional to the increase in voters.
The real issues, however, at the brake on Mean Streak and the lose of Ace Classic status on Blue Streak.
The real reason for the decline is that with an increased voting base, more coasters are brought into the fold.
I'll bet that Blue Streak's drop has been semi-proportional to the increase in voters.
The real issues, however, at the brake on Mean Streak and the lose of Ace Classic status on Blue Streak.
Lynch that still doesn't explain the stability of the Riverside Cyclone. The Cyclone has like no airtime, and TONS of laterals. People like it for what it is, a twister.
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Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
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Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
From what I understand, Riverside Cyclone was built in '83. Is this correct? (God bless rcdb.com.)
If it has stayed around the same spot on the poll even after (judging by my count) 18 new coasters that placed above it have been built since the poll was created, that's an oddity I don't know how to explain. ;)
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How dare you vanquish the Steel Phantom without his consent? Fear the Phantom's Revenge.
If it has stayed around the same spot on the poll even after (judging by my count) 18 new coasters that placed above it have been built since the poll was created, that's an oddity I don't know how to explain. ;)
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How dare you vanquish the Steel Phantom without his consent? Fear the Phantom's Revenge.
Check the numbers, I'm just repeating them. ;)
Riverside Cyclone
'94 - #31
'95 - #29
'96 - #35
'97 - #27
'98 - #29
'99 - #25
'00 - #31
That being said, it's interesting to look at the fluctuation and wonder how much the new PTC trains helped or hurt it this year. I mean, with the addition of some new coasters above it, you're right it's bound to drop some, but it didn't really drop much. 6 places is relatively nothing compared to the drops a lot of other coasters experienced. And it's right back where it started, in '94. So did the trains keep it from falling more or make it lose a few more places? You'd have to see how many people rode it this past summer...
Okay, among the unique-to-2000 riders (people who rode the ride in 2000) the Cyclone is up to number 29. This is a minute fluctuation, but may indeed say something about the new trains. Surprising, because from what I heard of people's opinions, although the PTC's were MUCH more comfortable than the old Morgans, the Morgans tracked much better. I hear the Cyclone is getting a reprofile for next year...maybe a rumor.
Anyway this isn't Guide to Riverside/Six Flags New England, so I'll stop on this issue now, but I think the Cyclone provides an interesting contast to what has happened to Mean Streak and Blue Streak.
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Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
Riverside Cyclone
'94 - #31
'95 - #29
'96 - #35
'97 - #27
'98 - #29
'99 - #25
'00 - #31
That being said, it's interesting to look at the fluctuation and wonder how much the new PTC trains helped or hurt it this year. I mean, with the addition of some new coasters above it, you're right it's bound to drop some, but it didn't really drop much. 6 places is relatively nothing compared to the drops a lot of other coasters experienced. And it's right back where it started, in '94. So did the trains keep it from falling more or make it lose a few more places? You'd have to see how many people rode it this past summer...
Okay, among the unique-to-2000 riders (people who rode the ride in 2000) the Cyclone is up to number 29. This is a minute fluctuation, but may indeed say something about the new trains. Surprising, because from what I heard of people's opinions, although the PTC's were MUCH more comfortable than the old Morgans, the Morgans tracked much better. I hear the Cyclone is getting a reprofile for next year...maybe a rumor.
Anyway this isn't Guide to Riverside/Six Flags New England, so I'll stop on this issue now, but I think the Cyclone provides an interesting contast to what has happened to Mean Streak and Blue Streak.
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Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
If you'll notice, classic coasters don't particularly drop much year to year. Also, the *good* Coney Cyclone inspirations/clones, tend to be fairly stable year to year.
It has something of a cult following, too.
It has something of a cult following, too.
Back to SOB for a second. A&E's ( arts and entertainment) top ten THRILL RIDE list had SOB coming in at #3 behind only Millenium Force(1) and Ghostrider(2). That's overall thrill rides in general, not just coasters including wooden, steel, plastic, rubber, ect; you name it. I'm wondering if you can lend any weight at all to these so-called polls. In fact, I won't even bat an eyelash at it unless there's several thousands of people voting, and I stress, SEVERAL THOUSANDS voting with some consistency.
*** This post was edited by Superstew on 12/2/2000. *** *** This post was edited by Superstew on 12/2/2000. ***
*** This post was edited by Superstew on 12/2/2000. *** *** This post was edited by Superstew on 12/2/2000. ***
Superstew, one would be hard-pressed to find several thousands of people who all have ridden enough coasters and know enough about them to be able to effectively rank them.
Read a bit about the way Mitch Hawker calculates his results, this poll is known as one of the most, if not THE most accurate among coaster enthusiasts. If it could be extended to other mediums rather than the Internet I believe his method would definitely yield the best results possible as far as coaster rankings go.
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Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
Read a bit about the way Mitch Hawker calculates his results, this poll is known as one of the most, if not THE most accurate among coaster enthusiasts. If it could be extended to other mediums rather than the Internet I believe his method would definitely yield the best results possible as far as coaster rankings go.
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Natalie
CP Ride Operations '99-'00
This is from Mitch's page:
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How the Internet Wooden Tracked Roller Coaster Poll Works
The ballot was posted to coaster related usenet newsgroups and
completed ballots were accepted during the month of November.
The ballot lists 139 woodies. Each person who takes the poll first
indicates all those on the ballot that they have ridden, and then
proceeds to numerically rank as many of them in relation to each other
as they are able.
The completed ballots are tabulated as follows:
Each of those 139 coasters is to be compared against each of the
other 138 coasters. So each coaster will end up with a maximum sum total
of 138 Wins + Losses + Ties. The comparisons are done by taking each
person's ballot and checking to see if they ranked each coaster AHEAD_OF,
BEHIND, or EQUAL to each other coaster they had ridden. After all of the
ballots are read in, the program looks to see if each coaster has more
AHEAD_OF's or BEHIND's in relation to each other coaster. If it has more
AHEAD_OF's than BEHIND's it is credited with a win and the other coaster
with a loss. This is done for all 139 coasters in relation to all 138
other coasters.
For example, in the 1997 poll Megafobia has 6 AHEAD_OF's, 2 BEHIND's
and 1 EQUAL in it's head to head comparison with Tonnerre de Zeus. So
Megafobia gets a win in that comparison and Tonnerre de Zeus a loss.
Riders of Megafobia had ridden 133 other woodies and in all cases
except one it had more AHEAD_OF's than BEHINDS so it has an overall total
of 132 wins. The one exception was Stampida which had 1 AHEAD_OF
and 1 BEHIND causing a tie. Therefore Megafobia's overall record
is 132-0-1.
In the end, the woodies are all ranked by their winning percentage.
Ties count as half a win and half a loss. In the event that two
coasters end up with identical winning percentages, the tie is broken
if possible, by determining which of the two won the head to head
comparison between them.
-----------
How the Internet Wooden Tracked Roller Coaster Poll Works
The ballot was posted to coaster related usenet newsgroups and
completed ballots were accepted during the month of November.
The ballot lists 139 woodies. Each person who takes the poll first
indicates all those on the ballot that they have ridden, and then
proceeds to numerically rank as many of them in relation to each other
as they are able.
The completed ballots are tabulated as follows:
Each of those 139 coasters is to be compared against each of the
other 138 coasters. So each coaster will end up with a maximum sum total
of 138 Wins + Losses + Ties. The comparisons are done by taking each
person's ballot and checking to see if they ranked each coaster AHEAD_OF,
BEHIND, or EQUAL to each other coaster they had ridden. After all of the
ballots are read in, the program looks to see if each coaster has more
AHEAD_OF's or BEHIND's in relation to each other coaster. If it has more
AHEAD_OF's than BEHIND's it is credited with a win and the other coaster
with a loss. This is done for all 139 coasters in relation to all 138
other coasters.
For example, in the 1997 poll Megafobia has 6 AHEAD_OF's, 2 BEHIND's
and 1 EQUAL in it's head to head comparison with Tonnerre de Zeus. So
Megafobia gets a win in that comparison and Tonnerre de Zeus a loss.
Riders of Megafobia had ridden 133 other woodies and in all cases
except one it had more AHEAD_OF's than BEHINDS so it has an overall total
of 132 wins. The one exception was Stampida which had 1 AHEAD_OF
and 1 BEHIND causing a tie. Therefore Megafobia's overall record
is 132-0-1.
In the end, the woodies are all ranked by their winning percentage.
Ties count as half a win and half a loss. In the event that two
coasters end up with identical winning percentages, the tie is broken
if possible, by determining which of the two won the head to head
comparison between them.
I just think it interesting that Blue Streak's *huge* slide corresponds with the season that CP butchered the trains...
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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