10/29/2011 - Where Was Security?

I don't know that metal detectors would have been effective in cutting down the kinds of issues that we saw on the 29th. The report of the gun in Screamworks has thus far been unsubstantiated; if it turns out to be some of Lance's usual nonsense, the presence of metal detectors would have done nothing to eliminate the douchebaggery of Saturday night.

Corkscrew Follies said:
I have a feeling these parks will start wanting to pay to staff metal detectors when someone gets shot or stabbed one of these days. I feel the way society is headed it's just a matter of when not if.

Yeah, man, I know what you mean. Time was, you could throw a free concert at a California speedway, and nothing like this would occur. What happened to those days?

Any kind of entrance security theater would be expensive, difficult, and pointless at Cedar Point. There are four gates and only two have enough space to accommodate anything more than the current setup, and trying to create a buffered safe zone around the park as some of the big operators do is even less practical because of the associated resort areas.

In short, having a sworn police department operating on the peninsula is probably a more effective means of protecting the customers than anything else they can do.

One more point...remember that the CPPD's job is to maintain security in the park. One of the things we as customers need to remember is tha their priorities are not necessarily the same as ours. Keeping the peace is more important than enforcing against nuisance behavior. Preventing a brawl is more important than enforcing the smoking ban, for instance. Generally, I tnk the park does a pretty good job balancing its security needs.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Break Trims said:
Yeah, man, I know what you mean. Time was, you could throw a free concert at a California speedway, and nothing like this would occur. What happened to those days?

I've noticed that there are many more angry, bitter people around than there used to be. Not sure if it is the economy and unemployment grinding on people or if other factors are at play. But, we used to be a kinder, less bitter society.

I don't see it that way, really. I think there may be an illusion that there are significantly more angry, bitter people around, but I think that appearance has to do with angry, bitter people generally being more vocal on the internet.

Research definitely shows that despite what one may think, we are far less violent, and in fact much more kind and generous, than ever.

Some rates are flat, and really the only variable that seems to keep going up are young girls; they appear to be more violent (but its still marginal compared to the big picture).

If you think the world is a more bitter place, it's either your own lens you're looking through, or you are in an unlucky place.

Violent imagery is way up...no argument there. I think the older we get our perspective certainly changes as well.

People have always cut in line at Cedar Point. Kids have always engaged in tomfoolery. The Klu Klux Klan used to have political clout in our society (which was apparently kinder?). We're still the most giving country on the planet, despite our economic woes.

Hell, the past 10 years have been the best of my life, so I'll use my own person-who reasoning and proclaim that our society is by far better than it has ever been. That's just as true.

I think in general, society is better. But, the bad apples themselves are worse, as is the degree to which they'll exhibit ludicrous behavior.

My sarcasm regarding Altamont seems to have gone unnoticed...

RideMan said:
Preventing a brawl is more important than enforcing the smoking ban, for instance. Generally, I tnk the park does a pretty good job balancing its security needs.

Yes, CPPD is doing the best it can with security. But what is the ride op's excuse? Or sweeps? Line jumping is usually reported to a ride op. In my experience they usually don't do much (if anything) about it. Smoking is easily noticed by a sweeper or a CP&LE RR op at a crossing. I can't count the number of times I've seen an employee in uniform walk by someone smoking in the midway and not say a thing. Upholding and enforcing the simple rules and policies (such as littering, smoking, and line jumping) set by the park is not hard. It's a part of their job. It's getting ridiculous.

Edit: Sorry if this posts multiple times. My internet connection stinks.

^^Sorry I missed it. I was too busy clenching my hands into fists of rage. You know, while he was on stage and all that.

Kevinj said:

Kids have always engaged in tomfoolery.

Did you just type 'tomfoolery'? I'll have to give you a +1 for sheer panache, dude. :)

Willijs3 said:

RideMan said:
Preventing a brawl is more important than enforcing the smoking ban, for instance. Generally, I tnk the park does a pretty good job balancing its security needs.

Yes, CPPD is doing the best it can with security. But what is the ride op's excuse? Or sweeps? Line jumping is usually reported to a ride op. In my experience they usually don't do much (if anything) about it. Smoking is easily noticed by a sweeper or a CP&LE RR op at a crossing. I can't count the number of times I've seen an employee in uniform walk by someone smoking in the midway and not say a thing. Upholding and enforcing the simple rules and policies (such as littering, smoking, and line jumping) set by the park is not hard. It's a part of their job. It's getting ridiculous.

They don't do it because they are tired of getting yelled at, sworn at, having cigarette's thrown at them, and quite possibly punched (which has happened more than it really should.) If you went through those kind of things every day while trying to enforce an unenforceable (in my point of view) policy, you would quit trying awfully fast.

When those things happen and you go to get a cop, you would get scoffed at or they wouldn't show up in time. If you want to blame someone, blame the people that continue to blatantly ignore the rules and then treat the employees like crap. Not the employees who have NO POWER to enforce the rule.

Ok, lets use another example.
You are a store clerk in a grocery store. You notice someone stealing a pack of gum. You are supposed to stop the person from stealing, so you ask the person nicely to put the gum back. The person refuses and starts yelling at you. You tell them that the store has a policy against stealing. They continue to yell. You don't like getting yelled at for enforcing the policy, so you make the decision to look he other way the next time you see someone stealing even though it's part of your job to prevent it.

Now imagine if every employee at the store decided the same thing. Theft becomes a problem.

Yes, the customer is becoming angry over getting caught breaking the rules and not getting their way. But that is no excuse for ignoring the problem.

It doesn't matter what example you use. What are the employees going to do? They have no power and security has other things to do that is more important for the general safety of the park.

Whatever analogy you use smoking outside of designated areas is not that high of a priority for the park. Maybe I'm a little bias because I am a smoker also, but I always smoke in designated areas and even tell others to put their butts out when not in designated areas.

So essentially the consensus here is that we are all kosher with security being lax in enforcement of line jumping & smoking because they are focused on the fisticuffs.

It could just be me, but should we not be more focused on WHY security has 'more important' problems with which to deal? Perhaps if we addressed the large issues with more officers or a limitation of group rates for certain groups, Officer Dudley can get back to watching the Happy Jack's que so I don't have to get the "you don't know who yer messin' with!" shouted at me a half dozen times a night.

the reports of the gun from what I've heard are inaccurate. from what I've gotten from those involved, were that someone reached for one of the cops guns not that they had a gun themselves.

I can confirm that there was no guest with a gun in the zone...That was a rumor that was going around.

I spend alot of time in Cedar Point and I also work in the resort industry and let me tell you from first hand experience that things are far more complex than how it simply appears. Example we also have a non-smoking policy that gets enforced when we have the ability to. An example of this is asking a customer who is smoking to please put out their smoke getting a reaction of them throwing the burning cancer stick on you. Sadly there are many people like this.

Also you need to take into account that even though people are line jumping and smoking in places that they are not supposed to be that there are other people selling and doing illicit drugs, stealing, robbing, and other more intense forms of general anarchy in which the brave souls of security must deal with also. Where I work I personally have had cases where I have been verbally assulted and threatened to the point that I wanted to kick out a person only to find out our security department was at the same time handling several unruly customers guarding 3 money transfers and waiting on police to arrive and arrest a pick pocket. On top of trying to locate a missing guest that was possibly having a diabetic attack.

The fact of the matter is, is that cedar point actually has a real police department enforcing Ohio and the city of Sandusky's laws as well as being the security department for a great amusement park. The fact that they do this day in and day out and we have to deal with relatively very little all things considered is a testiment that these people are in fact doing a terrific job.

Over the years I have had several unfortunate things happen, I have lost important things. Had car problems, had a boat almost sink thanks to someone not obeying a no wake while I was shifting material in my cabin and the one thing I realized really fast was that not only did help arrive in less the 3 minutes in most cases but my problem was either totally taken care of to resolution or the park took steps to ensure a more positive experience for me in the future. That to me shows a park that is interested in its guests, their well being, and to keep them fully satisfied and committed to a return trip.

For me personally Cedar Point is far more than an amusement, its part of the very fabric of my family in fact its a connection that spans 3 generations and soon to be 4. I lost my mom in August and didnt get go to CP as much this year but shortly before she passed she told me that some people have to look inside to find their happy place. Mine can be found in Erie County Ohio and in several of the neighboring counties as well. I love that place and it means something far more than the sum of its rides or operations. Cedar Point, for that matter the entire North Shore is very much a part of my soul and I will always ALWAYS find a way to get there at least once a year

I'll have to give you a +1 for sheer panache, dude.

Thank you sir.

It sounds like CP could use a bit more security. Why make all employees impotent? When I worked at a movie theater in high school, I was given authority (as a 16 year old usher) to kick people out...and I did (mind you I needed help, but I had some "power").

its part of the very fabric of my family in fact its a connection that spans 3 generations and soon to be 4.

You're not alone here. For many of us here, CP is more than just a place on a map.

WaterDummy said:
and quite possibly punched (which has happened more than it really should.)

That kind of makes it sound like there's some acceptable number of times getting punched other than zero. :)

Walt said:

WaterDummy said:
and quite possibly punched (which has happened more than it really should.)

That kind of makes it sound like there's some acceptable number of times getting punched other than zero. :)

Sometimes, people need a good fist sandwich upside the head but it definitely shouldn't be happening. :-)